RotoMetals2Titan ReloadingLee PrecisionGraf & Sons
MidSouth Shooters SupplyStainLess Steel MediaInline FabricationADvertise here

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 32 of 32

Thread: 9mm leading at muzzle Hi-Tek coated.

  1. #21
    Ran into the same here found the crimp die was swaging the bullet

  2. #22
    I'm A Honcho!

    Rattlesnake Charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
    Posts
    1,021
    I have read several places where the Lee Factory Crimp die will size down bullets. I use their taper crimp die in a separate step after seating the bullet.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    64
    Ditto on the taper crimp die. I thought it was causing me problems with swaging down some bullets, but it turns out it was too soft an alloy and it was the case itself that was the problem. The taper crimp die shouldn't be doing anything more than taking the bell off the case

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
    Ausglock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    NSW North Coast, Australia
    Posts
    2,125
    Remember.... the Taper crimp die is designed to reload jacketed bullets. not cast lead bullets at a larger dia. a few thou makes a difference..
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    263
    This is going to ramble some, so be patient.

    Lot of folks recommend harder lead for 9 mm. I am now convinced this is a good thing, but the recommendation usually does not come with the real reason. The reality is that harder lead helps in 9 mm as it minimizes boolit diameter reduction from seating in the case (I will call this case swaging). I am also talking in terms of no crimping other than removing the bell or flare.

    My lead is pretty soft. I can gather large enough quantities of outdoor range lead (I brought home around 15 - 20 gallons this summer). It is the only volume supply I have available without resorting to mail order. I really want to use the same lead for all volume application and do not want to mail order my lead. I am loading for 3 shooters (myself, my son & a friend) where the useage for 327 fed, 9mm, 38 SP, 357 mag, 44 mag & 45 ACP can be estimated based on say 3 trips a month for 2 shooters with 1.5 hrs of shooting per session.

    I confirmed that using my Lee "powder through expander" die with it's really short length was resulting in an OD for the band at the base of the boolits that was no bigger than 0.353" to 0.354" regardless of what diameter the boolits was sized to. Closer to the mouth (both in and out of the case) I could get an OD over groove diameter, but not by much for either OD or length of max OD.

    I spent last weekend playing around with "fixing" my case swaging concerns along with some additional efforts at lapping a better throat into the 0.3555" groove diameter aftermarket barrel we got for my son's Glock 17.

    To start off with, a 9 mm case is very thick at the mouth and gets thicker pretty quick. Range pickup mixed brass also gives lots of variations for rate the thickness increase from mouth and all of it seems to be made from brass that I would tend to call "hard".

    A larger plug portion of what we will call an M type expander can reduce case swaging. However, as noted by DougGuy in one of the active threads on the subject, inadequate tension between the boolit and the case can result in a dangerous condition if the boolit can move back into the case when you do not want it to (bullet setback).

    I fabbed up my own "m style" custom expander plug. I ended up with a cylindrical portion that is 0.3535" OD and 0.21" long. I can run this 0.22" in the case with just a little "bell" (for my shorter 110 gr RNs) or as deep as 0.25" for my 125 RNFPs. The ID of cases were expanded to a range from say 0.352" to 0.353" to the desired depth. Only expanding to the required depth and no further was intentional to minimize risk of boolit setback.

    For my boolits, there was no problem with case bulge resulting from this expander in combination with my max OD boolits. Case bulging would be more of an issue with heavier (longer) boolits.

    For my boolits, I could size to 0.359 and seat the boolits with a medium to light "pull" after using my custom expander. When these Boolits were removed, the band at the base of the 110 gr boolits was typically real close to 0.356". Just outside of the mouth, my seating die "sized" the boolit to say 0.3575". This was a constant OD out to wherever the RN portion started. The length at max OD was say 1/16" with an OAL of 1.030" (max to pass plunk - post barrel throat work).

    Sizing the 110 gr boolits to 0.3575" gave similar results with a very slight reduction in base band OD and slightly less boolit pull. Boolits were still secure enough to not move deeper with a pretty firm one finger push.

    I really could not get happy with boolit pull or with final base OD when test seating any boolits sized to 0.356".

    Next Friday is scheduled to include range testing of this weekends experimentation.
    Last edited by P Flados; 09-11-2017 at 10:20 PM.

  6. #26
    I'm A Honcho!

    Rattlesnake Charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
    Posts
    1,021
    Try using an expander for .38 Spl. In the Lyman Powder Charge/Expanding Die they are a larger diameter than for 9mm. It is also slightly longer which is good when loading heavy bullets in the 9mm.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    263
    Quote Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Charlie View Post
    Try using an expander for .38 Spl. In the Lyman Powder Charge/Expanding Die they are a larger diameter than for 9mm. It is also slightly longer which is good when loading heavy bullets in the 9mm.
    I have a number of factory expanders including a 38 auto, a 9mm and a 38 SP M die. All of them were smaller than desired (pretty much 0.352") and everything except the 38 Sp M die had a shorter than desired cylindrical portion (I was looking for expanding to a constant ID for a depth of at least 0.21" below the mouth).

    Given that while I was in college I had a part time job running a 13" metal lathe, I am forever mentally "spoiled". I was just not very willing to "settle" for the limited choices trying to find a factory expander that I was happy with.

    This effort was done without anything fancier than a portable drill, a bench grinder, a bench vice, threading dies and hand files.

    I will admit that I am getting tired of the work required to do what I want with crude tooling. Current plans are for one of the small cheap Harbor Freight or similer metal lathes as a self purchased Christmas gift for me and my gun toting youngest son.

  8. #28
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by P Flados View Post
    ...

    A larger plug portion of what we will call an M type expander can reduce case swaging. However, as noted by DougGuy in one of the active threads on the subject, inadequate tension between the boolit and the case can result in a dangerous condition if the boolit can move back into the case when you do not want it to (bullet setback).

    I fabbed up my own "m style" custom expander plug. I ended up with a cylindrical portion that is 0.3535" OD and 0.21" long. I can run this 0.22" in the case with just a little "bell" (for my shorter 110 gr RNs) or as deep as 0.25" for my 125 RNFPs. The ID of cases were expanded to a range from say 0.352" to 0.353" to the desired depth. Only expanding to the required depth and no further was intentional to minimize risk of boolit setback.

    For my boolits, there was no problem with case bulge resulting from this expander in combination with my max OD boolits. Case bulging would be more of an issue with heavier (longer) boolits.

    For my boolits, I could size to 0.359 and seat the boolits with a medium to light "pull" after using my custom expander. When these Boolits were removed, the band at the base of the 110 gr boolits was typically real close to 0.356". Just outside of the mouth, my seating die "sized" the boolit to say 0.3575". This was a constant OD out to wherever the RN portion started. The length at max OD was say 1/16" with an OAL of 1.030" (max to pass plunk - post barrel throat work). ...
    Making one's own tools is great if you enjoy it, your specs are very similar to a Lee 38 S&W powder thru expander .3535/.354" cylinder approximately .20" long that I'm running about .25" (including the small end bevel) into case to get the flare I want. I mention this because some may be less inclined to fabricate.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    NW USA
    Posts
    507
    I "made" my own m die out of a Hornady 9mm PTX insert by turning a step in it which also effectively lengthens it too. Worked great now my pulled bullets are .357 at the base and the step makes seating a breeze.

    Beware if anyone tries this the Hornady ptx inserts are hardened steel and were quite tricky to cut in the lathe.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,939
    I had some leading problems using the Lee taper crimp (the ONLY Lee die I own) I threw it into the drawer never to use it again. Put a Dillon in its place and all is well now. The 9mm with the Magma 124gr RN works fine with no leading. I plan to coat some of these bullets to see how they work.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    12,804
    keep in mind that pc isn't going to be a bandaid for a rough bore. Some guns just lead period and will copper foul with jacketed bullets.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  12. #32
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    keep in mind that pc isn't going to be a bandaid for a rough bore. Some guns just lead period and will copper foul with jacketed bullets.
    That is a good point one that is generally missed.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check