9mm leading at muzzle Hi-Tek coated.

[hollywood63]

Ran into the same here found the crimp die was swaging the bullet

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I have read several places where the Lee Factory Crimp die will size down bullets. I use their taper crimp die in a separate step after seating the bullet.

[asmith80]

Ditto on the taper crimp die. I thought it was causing me problems with swaging down some bullets, but it turns out it was too soft an alloy and it was the case itself that was the problem. The taper crimp die shouldn't be doing anything more than taking the bell off the case

[Ausglock]

Remember.... the Taper crimp die is designed to reload jacketed bullets. not cast lead bullets at a larger dia. a few thou makes a difference..

[P Flados]

This is going to ramble some, so be patient.

Lot of folks recommend harder lead for 9 mm. I am now convinced this is a good thing, but the recommendation usually does not come with the real reason. The reality is that harder lead helps in 9 mm as it minimizes boolit diameter reduction from seating in the case (I will call this case swaging). I am also talking in terms of no crimping other than removing the bell or flare.

My lead is pretty soft. I can gather large enough quantities of outdoor range lead (I brought home around 15 - 20 gallons this summer). It is the only volume supply I have available without resorting to mail order. I really want to use the same lead for all volume application and do not want to mail order my lead. I am loading for 3 shooters (myself, my son & a friend) where the useage for 327 fed, 9mm, 38 SP, 357 mag, 44 mag & 45 ACP can be estimated based on say 3 trips a month for 2 shooters with 1.5 hrs of shooting per session.

I confirmed that using my Lee "powder through expander" die with it's really short length was resulting in an OD for the band at the base of the boolits that was no bigger than 0.353" to 0.354" regardless of what diameter the boolits was sized to. Closer to the mouth (both in and out of the case) I could get an OD over groove diameter, but not by much for either OD or length of max OD.

I spent last weekend playing around with "fixing" my case swaging concerns along with some additional efforts at lapping a better throat into the 0.3555" groove diameter aftermarket barrel we got for my son's Glock 17.

To start off with, a 9 mm case is very thick at the mouth and gets thicker pretty quick. Range pickup mixed brass also gives lots of variations for rate the thickness increase from mouth and all of it seems to be made from brass that I would tend to call "hard".

A larger plug portion of what we will call an M type expander can reduce case swaging. However, as noted by DougGuy in one of the active threads on the subject, inadequate tension between the boolit and the case can result in a dangerous condition if the boolit can move back into the case when you do not want it to (bullet setback).

I fabbed up my own "m style" custom expander plug. I ended up with a cylindrical portion that is 0.3535" OD and 0.21" long. I can run this 0.22" in the case with just a little "bell" (for my shorter 110 gr RNs) or as deep as 0.25" for my 125 RNFPs. The ID of cases were expanded to a range from say 0.352" to 0.353" to the desired depth. Only expanding to the required depth and no further was intentional to minimize risk of boolit setback.

For my boolits, there was no problem with case bulge resulting from this expander in combination with my max OD boolits. Case bulging would be more of an issue with heavier (longer) boolits.

For my boolits, I could size to 0.359 and seat the boolits with a medium to light "pull" after using my custom expander. When these Boolits were removed, the band at the base of the 110 gr boolits was typically real close to 0.356". Just outside of the mouth, my seating die "sized" the boolit to say 0.3575". This was a constant OD out to wherever the RN portion started. The length at max OD was say 1/16" with an OAL of 1.030" (max to pass plunk - post barrel throat work).

Sizing the 110 gr boolits to 0.3575" gave similar results with a very slight reduction in base band OD and slightly less boolit pull. Boolits were still secure enough to not move deeper with a pretty firm one finger push.

I really could not get happy with boolit pull or with final base OD when test seating any boolits sized to 0.356".

Next Friday is scheduled to include range testing of this weekends experimentation.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Try using an expander for .38 Spl. In the Lyman Powder Charge/Expanding Die they are a larger diameter than for 9mm. It is also slightly longer which is good when loading heavy bullets in the 9mm.

[P Flados]

Try using an expander for .38 Spl. In the Lyman Powder Charge/Expanding Die they are a larger diameter than for 9mm. It is also slightly longer which is good when loading heavy bullets in the 9mm.

I have a number of factory expanders including a 38 auto, a 9mm and a 38 SP M die. All of them were smaller than desired (pretty much 0.352") and everything except the 38 Sp M die had a shorter than desired cylindrical portion (I was looking for expanding to a constant ID for a depth of at least 0.21" below the mouth).

Given that while I was in college I had a part time job running a 13" metal lathe, I am forever mentally "spoiled". I was just not very willing to "settle" for the limited choices trying to find a factory expander that I was happy with.

This effort was done without anything fancier than a portable drill, a bench grinder, a bench vice, threading dies and hand files.

I will admit that I am getting tired of the work required to do what I want with crude tooling. Current plans are for one of the small cheap Harbor Freight or similer metal lathes as a self purchased Christmas gift for me and my gun toting youngest son.

[Beef15]

...

A larger plug portion of what we will call an M type expander can reduce case swaging. However, as noted by DougGuy in one of the active threads on the subject, inadequate tension between the boolit and the case can result in a dangerous condition if the boolit can move back into the case when you do not want it to (bullet setback).

I fabbed up my own "m style" custom expander plug. I ended up with a cylindrical portion that is 0.3535" OD and 0.21" long. I can run this 0.22" in the case with just a little "bell" (for my shorter 110 gr RNs) or as deep as 0.25" for my 125 RNFPs. The ID of cases were expanded to a range from say 0.352" to 0.353" to the desired depth. Only expanding to the required depth and no further was intentional to minimize risk of boolit setback.

For my boolits, there was no problem with case bulge resulting from this expander in combination with my max OD boolits. Case bulging would be more of an issue with heavier (longer) boolits.

For my boolits, I could size to 0.359 and seat the boolits with a medium to light "pull" after using my custom expander. When these Boolits were removed, the band at the base of the 110 gr boolits was typically real close to 0.356". Just outside of the mouth, my seating die "sized" the boolit to say 0.3575". This was a constant OD out to wherever the RN portion started. The length at max OD was say 1/16" with an OAL of 1.030" (max to pass plunk - post barrel throat work). ...

Making one's own tools is great if you enjoy it, your specs are very similar to a Lee 38 S&W powder thru expander .3535/.354" cylinder approximately .20" long that I'm running about .25" (including the small end bevel) into case to get the flare I want. I mention this because some may be less inclined to fabricate.

[Drew P]

I "made" my own m die out of a Hornady 9mm PTX insert by turning a step in it which also effectively lengthens it too. Worked great now my pulled bullets are .357 at the base and the step makes seating a breeze.

Beware if anyone tries this the Hornady ptx inserts are hardened steel and were quite tricky to cut in the lathe.

[6bg6ga]

I had some leading problems using the Lee taper crimp (the ONLY Lee die I own) I threw it into the drawer never to use it again. Put a Dillon in its place and all is well now. The 9mm with the Magma 124gr RN works fine with no leading. I plan to coat some of these bullets to see how they work.

[Lloyd Smale]

keep in mind that pc isn't going to be a bandaid for a rough bore. Some guns just lead period and will copper foul with jacketed bullets.

[6bg6ga]

keep in mind that pc isn't going to be a bandaid for a rough bore. Some guns just lead period and will copper foul with jacketed bullets.

That is a good point one that is generally missed.

[Willbird]

This looks to be the newest thread on this general topic. Cast some Lee 356-125-2R from a 6 cavity mold. Alloy is 50-50 indoor range scrap and COWW. Powder coated with Smokes Bacon Grease....baked at 450F for 25 minutes. My convection toaster oven settled in real nice at 450 on an oven thermo and I have not messed with temp in a long time .

Started right off in Dillon RL550B using Dillon dies. Using Sport Pistol powder which is supposed to be polymer coated bullet friendly.

Messed around some and got terrible results, finally something from memory tickled me and I pulled a bullet and measured it. Bullets were getting sized down to .353 on the base band by seating in the cases. The Dillon F powder funnel is .353" and leaves the case mouths pretty much .351.

I full length resized all my brass then wet tumbled so I was able to run an M die in station 1. I had a .356 Lee push thru so sized a few PC bullets and then seated in case and pulled, they left the Lee sizer at .3555 and were still .3555 after seating and pulling. Better but still not there.

I had some I had PC and water dropped from the over a few days ago, pushed them through Lee .358 push through and of everything I have tried they look the best so far.

Need to get a hammer puller, dunno where mine wandered off to....improvised pulling methods not so good ...then confirm that a seated .358 stays .358 whether air cooled or water dropped from PC oven.

Pistol is an XD mod.2 9x19 3" barrel.

Still SMH that Dillon thinks that a .351 case ID after expanding is "good" . Neck tension has limits, and Dillon seems to like to use bullets to expand rather than and expander plug hehe.

Bill

[BigAlofPa.]

Hi had some leading in my muzzle brake. On my carbines. From pushing hi-tec coated to fast in 10mm and 9mm.

[Burnt Fingers]

This looks to be the newest thread on this general topic. Cast some Lee 356-125-2R from a 6 cavity mold. Alloy is 50-50 indoor range scrap and COWW. Powder coated with Smokes Bacon Grease....baked at 450F for 25 minutes. My convection toaster oven settled in real nice at 450 on an oven thermo and I have not messed with temp in a long time .

Started right off in Dillon RL550B using Dillon dies. Using Sport Pistol powder which is supposed to be polymer coated bullet friendly.

Messed around some and got terrible results, finally something from memory tickled me and I pulled a bullet and measured it. Bullets were getting sized down to .353 on the base band by seating in the cases. The Dillon F powder funnel is .353" and leaves the case mouths pretty much .351.

I full length resized all my brass then wet tumbled so I was able to run an M die in station 1. I had a .356 Lee push thru so sized a few PC bullets and then seated in case and pulled, they left the Lee sizer at .3555 and were still .3555 after seating and pulling. Better but still not there.

I had some I had PC and water dropped from the over a few days ago, pushed them through Lee .358 push through and of everything I have tried they look the best so far.

Need to get a hammer puller, dunno where mine wandered off to....improvised pulling methods not so good ...then confirm that a seated .358 stays .358 whether air cooled or water dropped from PC oven.

Pistol is an XD mod.2 9x19 3" barrel.

Still SMH that Dillon thinks that a .351 case ID after expanding is "good" . Neck tension has limits, and Dillon seems to like to use bullets to expand rather than and expander plug hehe.

Bill

http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1582

That part helps a lot. The Dillon funnel works quite well with jacketed bullets.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I find the Dillon powder funnels are too small for what I like to use for cast bullets. I bought one of the funnels from UniqueTek. The diameter of the smallest part is .351 with a step up to .357. I've not used it yet as it is not what I wanted. My Lyman powder through expander die measures .354 at the smallest, and the length of that step is significantly longer than the UniqueTek funnel. I am looking for someone to let me use their lathe to change that one from UniqueTek closer to what the Lyman one is.

Attachment 238743

[Willbird]

I find the Dillon powder funnels are too small for what I like to use for cast bullets. I bought one of the funnels from UniqueTek. The diameter of the smallest part is .351 with a step up to .357. I've not used it yet as it is not what I wanted. My Lyman powder through expander die measures .354 at the smallest, and the length of that step is significantly longer than the UniqueTek funnel. I am looking for someone to let me use their lathe to change that one from UniqueTek closer to what the Lyman one is.

Attachment 238743

I did look at those and agree they were not exactly what I wanted. Once I get a hammer puller I will do some more work on the dia plug that works out. I have a lathe and can make a Dillon powder funnel but it is quite involved so the R&D is best done with an M die, those plugs are a LOT easier to make .

The trend with people I know and meet who think about starting to reload is to jump right to progressive and often to a Blue machine. I really wonder how many people try one box of plated or PC or regular cast bullets....decide they "suck" and never return to them due to a setup that leaves the case mouths .351 inside for a .356-.358 bullet .

Bill

[Willbird]

NOE sells these plugs here that look pretty cool, they are designed to drop into the Lee Universal Neck Expanding die.

https://leeprecision.com/universal-c...nding-die.html

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...oducts_id=1130

That die is a handy body to use when making custom expander plugs because you do not have to thread anything.

Bill

[Willbird]

The other issue is neck tension in the finished round...pushing the loaded rounds against a bathroom scale has been mentioned in other threads on other boards, 35 lbs is about minimum to ensure that bullets never set back. Some folks even see setback in factory self defense loads so it is something to keep tabs on.

Using a plug that goes just deep enough may help too, that would mean a different plug for 147 grain vs 115 grain maybe.

Bill

[gareth96]

I was having bad accuracy and a touch of leading at the end of the barrel on my 9mm (Sig P320). Barrel slugged at .3555 ish.. Using the Hornady LnL AP with 9mm PTX my boolits were getting swaged down to .354-.355 or so.. so I got the NOE plug and Lee univ expander. With the Lee by itself I couldn't get it adjusted to get a flare without causing the case to bulge, so had to also use the flaring function on the PTX expander and stopped the Lee just short of where it bulges the case. I loaded the first 5 using that method last night (had to get out yote hunting) and pulled one JUST now. Measured .356 at the base, and .357 at the top gas ring. Boolit is PC'd Lee TL356-124-TC sized to .357. Plan to shoot the other 4 for accuracy once the wife leaves for work.. Oh, and neck tension was pretty good.. took quite a few good schwacks with the impact bullet puller to get it to come out.