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Thread: 45-70 M Vel. no GC

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    45-70 M Vel. no GC

    Still reading n researching. My NEF 45-70, at what Vel. do you need to use a GC ? I plan on staying in the nice recoil area of Trapdoor loads but using smokeless. My tick toter hunting range is 100 yds n less. I don't think i can see 75 yds on my place once the leaves fall. I have Meister 350gr cast boolits to load, they are .458. I am going to start with 4759 powder at 22gr.

  2. #2
    Boolit Mold
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    I have been on 8 Forum Sites n think i have my answer. As long as i stay with lower Vel. under 1500 fps n use powder loads that isn't high pressured i will be ok.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master buckshotshoey's Avatar
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    A little late but It depends on the alloy used. But 1500 is a good number for wheel weights. Linotype may push a little harder.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I must be doing something wrong ......

    Not Trapdoor loads but I pushed several 405s over 1600 .......also not fun to shoot in a 7-8# rifle .

    I have a basically rimless 460 S&W and have run a .453-350 RF plain base over 1700 fps around 30kpsi . It also looses the fun factor in a 7# rifle .

    My magic alloy is 75/25 WW-1-20 . The 1-20 is from lead tamper seals an appears to be copper saturated .
    I'm paper patching the 453-350 with probably a base card and fill the case with 4350 . Also likely not a Trapdoor level load but start/investigation loads weren't abusive in the 7-8# 1895 G . The full case keeps the bullet from slipping in the magazine .

    The longer bbl you have will gain some velocity . Over the 18" bbls I'm shooting .

    I'd forgotten about having shot the Lee 458-340F . I didn't Chrony any of those but in the Marlin I think they were probably up in the 1600s also .

    The greatest advantage of the straight wall cartridge is that a full case of powder will let you use punched card stock or waxed board or egg carton or card stock and meat tray plugs in place of the gas check in terms of base peening .
    I'm no where near knowledgeable in the 45-70 smokeless but I did work from a lot of notes and guidance here and from knowledgeable sources most of the spring .

    Ssshhh best load in the Marlin was the PP350 over 12 gr Unique , don't know what it was for speed but I'm going with 454 comparable speeds and a joy to shoot .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

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  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    I have a box of Win. S-X at 1880 fps n they are not fun. I can handle it, too me there is not a good reason to. I reckon most of the base wads are for Blk. powder loads ? Or maybe like you said in place of a GC. I may end up getting a single mold for 350 gr 385 gr or 405gr. I will have to see how my .458 350 gr cast work using 4759

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Since you mentioned you wish to stay in Trapdoor loads, that's going to pretty much limit the velocity to less than 1200 fps with 400 grain lead bullets - maybe 1300 fps. Anything in that range or less I don't think you'll find any advantage to GC's at all. Do you plan to lube or powder coat?

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    I don't think i need GC's, i am not planning on over 1300 fps. I have the NEF 1-20 twist N hope to see if the 350 gr will be accurate enuff for my under 100 yds deer hunting on my place. From all i have read these 45-70 's about wiped out the millions of Bison with loads of speed n less

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    You won't need GCs with a proper alloy for TD level loads. The Meister bullets are certainly hard enough alloy wise. The lube may or may not work well. Keep the loads with 350 - 405 gr bullets in the 45-55 to 45-70 velocity range (1050 - 1350 fps) and they'll be comfortable. Your load sounds like a pretty good place to start.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenH View Post
    Since you mentioned you wish to stay in Trapdoor loads, that's going to pretty much limit the velocity to less than 1200 fps with 400 grain lead bullets - maybe 1300 fps. Anything in that range or less I don't think you'll find any advantage to GC's at all. Do you plan to lube or powder coat?
    The Meister 350 gr have blue lube on them, i spect lubing works well enuff. So i will lube cast boolits once i do decide to get a mold. I will have to learn all i can on that also. I am really hoping to keep it simple as i can. I can see this may become abit addicting n climb in your billfold every chance it gets

  10. #10
    Boolit Master RKJ's Avatar
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    Take a look at that LEE 340, I think I paid around $22.00 from Midway no shipping as I picked it up. I PC it and am using Jacketed data with no leading. I figure it is plenty for our Whitetails here in MO. If you want to try some, let me know.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    If you do get leading with the Meister boolits try giving them a coat of Lee liquid alox over the blue stuff and the leading will probably stop assuming you start with a clean bore. GF

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check