Silver "amassing"

[Love Life]

I guess I don't see keeping it for a survival situation. IF shtf food and water is going to be the best barter material followed by things like guns, ammo, fuel, toilet paper ect. If we had a major event it youd probably die of old age before there was a demand for silver and gold to make high tech things. Id have to think an gold coin wouldn't buy you a box of 3030 shells. Not at my house anyway

My thoughts as well.


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[StolzerandSons]

I guess I don't see keeping it for a survival situation. IF shtf food and water is going to be the best barter material followed by things like guns, ammo, fuel, toilet paper ect. If we had a major event it youd probably die of old age before there was a demand for silver and gold to make high tech things. Id have to think an gold coin wouldn't buy you a box of 3030 shells. Not at my house anyway

It really depends on the SHTF scenario how useful precious metals will be. I agree that in a natural disaster scenario you can't eat gold or silver and it's added weight to carry around. But what if the scenario is 1940's Germany? Gov't officials can't be bribed or bartered with for bread and water, guns, ammo or fuel since they have a ready supply of those things but they can be bribed with precious metals or precious gems.

Survival means different things depending on the situation, there are many scenarios where a small amount of precious metals can be the difference between life and death. It's not always about purchasing power sometimes it's about the commodity itself.

[jmort]

I guess I don't see keeping it for a survival situation. IF shtf food and water is going to be the best barter material followed by things like guns, ammo, fuel, toilet paper ect. If we had a major event it youd probably die of old age before there was a demand for silver and gold to make high tech things. Id have to think an gold coin wouldn't buy you a box of 3030 shells. Not at my house anyway

This makes sense

[jmort]

I think keeping cash around makes sense especially if you have a mortgage. Let's say we go Venezuelian, the "worthless" paper money will pay the mortgage at zero mark up/down.. Just think about selling a gun for a huge pile of cash. Get tradable goods. I don't smoke or drink distilled liquor, but around here that will be real nice to have for trade. Like Lloyd said, get stuff you can barter. I get extra stuff I use. This is one area the LDS is way ahead of us. Two years of food stored up.

[GhostHawk]

A First invest in food, weapons, ammo, knives, tools, stuff that keeps you alive and healthy. Especially so if it will do it without power.

B Get debt free, totally. Does not matter how much silver you have if someone can foreclose on your house and take all your stuff including the silver.

Then and only then a modest amount of silver is IMO reasonable.

I have mine, bought a lot of other stuff first and after.
If silver hits 1000$ an ounce yes I'll be happy. But I am not holding my breath.

We have some junk silver, for making change, 10 dimes makes it easy. Remember, the junk silver though is only 90%.

I have a fair stock of US silver dollars, some canadian silver, and a bunch of rounds.
They look like dollars but they were significantly less expensive. Same amount of silver, but not minted by the government. But there was no premium on them either. So I got them for 14$ and change instead of 17$.

Minor risk perhaps.

I've held mine for almost 2 years now, and I am glad I have it. I think long term it is a good hedge against inflation.

If you had enough precious metals to buy a nice house on the hill back in the early 1900's. That same pile of metal would still buy that same house on the hill today.

But don't neglect all the other things that are needed. Silver is only one of many.

[DerekP Houston]

It really depends on the SHTF scenario how useful precious metals will be. I agree that in a natural disaster scenario you can't eat gold or silver and it's added weight to carry around. But what if the scenario is 1940's Germany? Gov't officials can't be bribed or bartered with for bread and water, guns, ammo or fuel since they have a ready supply of those things but they can be bribed with precious metals or precious gems.

Survival means different things depending on the situation, there are many scenarios where a small amount of precious metals can be the difference between life and death. It's not always about purchasing power sometimes it's about the commodity itself.

That's my line of thinking. SHTF isn't always about a complete meltdown of humanity, could just be localized or hyperinflation or the sort. Same reason I keep some cash in the safe for emergencies, you never know when a hurricane here will throw things out of whack for a month or two and better safe than sorry.

[StolzerandSons]

I think keeping cash around makes sense especially if you have a mortgage. Let's say we go Venezuelian, the "worthless" paper money will pay the mortgage at zero mark up/down...

No, the worthless paper money wouldn't pay the mortgage because the banks and businesses refused to take the new currency when Venezuela declared the old notes had to be converted. The 100 Bolivar note was worth about 4 cents, how many do you need to pay your mortgage at those rates if you can convince your banker to accept them?

What happens if the scenario isn't Venezuela but Zimbabwe instead...even I am a trillionaire since I have 3-one trillion dollar Zim Notes that I kept as souvenirs. When your country issues a one hundred trillion dollar note you to can be a starving billionaire.

Diversity is the way to go...

[dragon813gt]

Remember, the junk silver though is only 90%.

There is also 35% war nickels, 40% Kennedy half dollars and 40% Eisenhower silver dollars. I wouldn't mind if someone thought the war nickels I have are 90%

[jmort]

No, the worthless paper money wouldn't pay the mortgage because the banks and businesses refused to take the new currency when Venezuela declared the old notes had to be converted. The 100 Bolivar note was worth about 4 cents, how many do you need to pay your mortgage at those rates if you can convince your banker to accept them?

What happens if the scenario isn't Venezuela but Zimbabwe instead...even I am a trillionaire since I have 3-one trillion dollar Zim Notes that I kept as souvenirs. When your country issues a one hundred trillion dollar note you to can be a starving billionaire.

Diversity is the way to go...

That would obviously boil down to a court decision. Is my dollar worth a dollar? I say yes. How do you pay a mortgage with bullion??? Fiat money is just that.

[williamwaco]

Who says coins will be worth anything in that scenario? Food, alcohol, tobacco and necessities will be worth their weight on gold(figuratively).

I believe there is a good chance that ammo will be more negotiable than silver coins. I keep some of both.

[StolzerandSons]

That would obviously boil down to a court decision. Is my dollar worth a dollar? I say yes. How do you pay a mortgage with bullion??? Fiat money is just that.

You might say it's worth a dollar but I doubt the courts will when the Gov't is the one changing the currency.

Banks will hold bullion as collateral and defer payments until the currency stabilizes.

I don't have much bullion, I stick to U.S. coins mostly because of there easy provenance.

[jmort]

Since neither of us know, and I will defer to myself based on my education and vocation, we will have to disagree. If there is rule of law, then a dollar is a dollar, i.e. legal tender at par.

[StolzerandSons]

Since neither of us know, and I will defer to myself based on my education and vocation, we will have to disagree. If there is rule of law, then a dollar is a dollar, i.e. legal tender at par.

Rule of law changes based on who is in power. Rule of law goes out the window when there is panic and chaos.
I'll stick with history as my teacher...

As I said diversity is the way to go, it's a good idea to have 2-6 month cash on hand, some precious metals/gems and a year or more of basic usable and trade goods such as food, water, ammo, medical supplies, alcohol and/or a still, et. al... and this all really only applies after you clear up any debt you might have(including a mortgage).

[mold maker]

When it comes to paying your mortgage, the banks and lenders will accept silver and gold in favor of paper. They can't put your home and property in their safe, and precious metals are a much better bet than paper.
During the depression, my Dad had bought a car and couldn't make the payments. The bank didn't want another car and told him to put it in the barn and pay for it when he could. Without a job, he couldn't buy gas and there was nowhere better to go.
He did finally pay it off and the bank was as happy as he was.
We are no longer an agricultural society. The population without access to dirt outnumber the farmers. Any food available for trade or sale will be bought with real value, not faith in paper. When this country was on the Gold Standard, the paper had real value. Since then there is no value in paper money, just a perceived value backed by absolutely nothing, and as perminate and steady as vapor. You can safely bet paper money will decrease in value and will be balanced with an equal increase in precious metals value.
While not always a guaranteed investment, over the long haul it is only bettered by acreage of useable property, and you'll owe taxes on that.......

[BrassMagnet]

I too use APMEX, but also buy some junk silver on fleabay and don't worry about counterfeit. Who is going to counterfeit an old 1960 quarter? Now silver rounds and bars are another thing! They only come from a trusted seller and most ebayers aren't trusted that much.

China!
I have seen counterfeit silver dollars. There are also confirmed counterfeit silver half dollars. The nickel alloy counterfeits are so good now that you cannot identify them by measuring dimensions or weight. My info source is years old now and they may have gotten down to silver quarters and silver dimes by now.
How would you like to buy two silver dollars from different sources and find they were minted in the same years and even have the same exact scratches in them? If you must acid test them to prove they are not silver then you have destroyed any numismatic value they may have had if they were genuine silver. Who bothers to acid test junk silver? I believe the Chinese counterfeiters had also begun counterfeiting our new silver bullion coins; however, I believe the quality was not up to the US Mint quality. I am sure the Feds would pursue any FleaBayers selling them. There is a lot to be said for exercising caution in your purchases!

[Gray Fox]

I think a lot of us are missing the fact that the recounting of the car sitting in the garage until paid off requires a local bank that survived the Great Depression, much as the one depicted in the movie "It's a Wonderful Life". In our current situation do you think this would happen when the likes of Bank of America, Wells Fargo, or even the Naval Federal Credit Union go under? I don't have an answer as to what would be the best answer. I have some friends that work in the small Appalacian hill towns that could feed their families some extra protein for several months with one box of .30-30 or .308. Heck, they're probably doing it around their gardens year-round as I write this. Since he knows I'm a city dweller his trading goods from his garden and smoke house could get right sharp in order to get that ammo. Ten dimes or a silver dollar or two wouldn't help either of us in that situation for a very long time. Not only that, but I could trust that he wouldn't later decide to come after me with my own ammo to get whatever ammo and other items I had left. That in itself will be a major factor in any such bartering situation. It won't be nice for anyone. Just my $.02. GF

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There's certainly some truth in what you're saying, Gray Fox, but for years I've heard, "When the big collapse comes I'm taking my rifle, heading to the hills and living off the land." There are so many of us self-sufficient types that the woods will be pretty well striped out of venison in just a couple of months. Better, I'm thinking, to have a couple of years food supply on hand until things settle down a bit and until your crop(s) come in.

[dragon813gt]

More importantly. There are people already living in those hills. If you aren't a current resident you won't be welcome. People's plans for a total collapse scenario always amuse me. Stay at home and protect what you have. Anything else is quite foolish. Especially when going into areas where you aren't wanted.

[DerekP Houston]

More importantly. There are people already living in those hills. If you aren't a current resident you won't be welcome. People's plans for a total collapse scenario always amuse me. Stay at home and protect what you have. Anything else is quite foolish. Especially when going into areas where you aren't wanted.

My kit is too heavy to move or relocate, and honestly I'm probably in the 90% that will go in the first wave anyways . I'll stay put. Ranchers don't want you on their land RIGHT NOW, let alone in the scenarios some are thinking. Those few national parks around here will be over-run quite quickly.

[opos]

Well the original post sort of went astray but it's been interesting looking at all the different posts...but again, as I had said....we are 80 years old so "prepping" and living off the land would be about as realistic as playing hockey or mixed martial arts fighting at our age..

Mostly seems like having a few bags of 90% junk silver coins from a reputable dealer (not an investment...just a sort of insurance policy) should something occur that prevents us from accessing funds from the bank...thinking more along the lines of the big power outage we had some years ago that took out a huge amount of the South Western grid for a number of days...

If anything much happens that runs out past a week or so we will have to rely on our grown kids for help. When I was young I "lived off the land" frequently on long term elk and deer hunts, camping with the kids for a week or so at a time, etc in the Colorado mountains. Now I live in the heart of San Diego where roughing it has more become a motel room when we travel...we are both old and kind of banged up so "survival" in reality, is not something we spend much time thinking about.

Talked with a guy that is really fanatic about silver coins...he's been involved in them for decades and he made one sort of strange comment..he said they always have at least face value...I sort of kidded him and asked "if a 90% quarter is "worth" $3 today and the "bottom line fall back that it's always worth a quarter"...why not just buy common quarters by the bag full and assume they will always be worth a quarter...regardless of the silver content..he didn't answer and said he had to go...

I spoke with a man that I trust in the area...he has bags of silver junk coins...been amassing them for years...he has a larger dealer in our area that has always been straight with him and has a long and trusted reputation..so I'm going to see them and simply purchase a bag or two of $100 face at just barely over spot (about 3-4% is their mark up)...

Thanks for all the input and I learned a lot...

We used to laugh that if the SHTF scenario comes to pass we'll just head for the marina where I kept my offshore boat docked and steal the biggest yacht we can find that has full fuel tanks and a water maker and head into Mexico..probably really upset some guy from Arizona or Nevada (they all got the big boats here) but survival would be key...today I'm too old and banged up to even handle the lines on a big boat...that's why I sold mine some years ago..

thanks ago