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Thread: I am looking for loads 12ga all brass shells

  1. #1

    I am looking for loads 12ga all brass shells

    (could not see topic area for shotgun load data)

    I am looking for loads 12ga all brass shells
    BP and modern smokeless powder loads for shot/lee slugs/roundball/or combination of.
    please do not put info to buy wads or the brass hulls I wish to keep this just on load data thanks.
    I have been looking for this info for a couple weeks now and info is scarce to non existent I want to build up as much load info as I can find and then share a pdf file with the info just so that full brass load data does not get lost with time as seems to be the case to me now.

  2. #2
    Boolit Mold
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    i also would like to know this info as well. and also the fiber wad over powder card and over shot card size as well.

    thanks Mic

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    It's here just have to use the google search for the forum.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  4. #4
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    BPI or Track of the wolf for wads/cards. BPI's site is very good, they list the card size you need.

    You are not going to find smokeless data for brass hulls. It does not exist.
    No one wants to be liable if someone has an accident.

    So you either throw the shotgun reloading rulebook out the window.

    Or you end up loading them with black powder.

    There is data out there that can be used, if your careful. But your google-fu is going to have to be very very good. And you'll dig for it, and dig, and dig.

    Shotgunworld is where I would start.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Unless you know exactly what you are doing its best to stay with published data and plastic hulls for smokeless powder.
    BP loading info is not hard to find and is a bit more flexible.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Ballistic products has a manual for reloading brass hulls. Might be worth looking into. I used to reload them using green dot powder. They worked fine for me.

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb16 View Post
    Ballistic products has a manual for reloading brass hulls. Might be worth looking into. I used to reload them using green dot powder. They worked fine for me.
    I almost bought that manual but one review I saw was that it was all black powder. If anyone knows differently, please share.

    I load mine up with BP, wads, and slug. I have a new batch with my round ball to try Sunday. Love it.

  8. #8
    Boolit Man Markopolo's Avatar
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    i have the manual, and it is full of BP, and Smokless powder recipe's... I can post data, but you gotta narrow it down a bit... I do like and recommend the manual...

    I use a roll crimp with the brass shells, and Alcan wads..

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    You are not going to find smokeless data for brass hulls. It does not exist.
    That's the thing that puzzles me GhostHawk. During WWI and WWII the shotguns that we used had some paper ammo, but the paper swelled and deformed in the mag. So we issued Brass Shotshells. I haven't been able to find any of the data, or even the original producers, but I can't imagine they used Black Powder. So it's been done about a hundred years ago but nobody official wants to talk about it.
    "There are no solutions there are only tradeoffs" ~ Thomas Sowell

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    i have the manual, and it is full of BP, and Smokless powder recipe's... I can post data, but you gotta narrow it down a bit... I do like and recommend the manual...

    I use a roll crimp with the brass shells, and Alcan wads..

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cool. I went ahead and ordered manual. $15 free ship.. meh not horrible.

    Do you anneal brass? I like to crimp too. But my first rounds resulted in a bunch of split necks. Went ahead and annealed this next batch.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Scroll to the bottom of this link for detail reloading brass hulls with black powder ... http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html
    If BP is not your cup of tea, use Trail Boss using the instructions on the Hodgdon website. Using TB, you will have to adjust the height of your wad column
    Regards
    John

  12. #12
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Yes it has been done.

    I have seen a couple of guys over at shotgun world who actually had the equipment to pressure test loads. Essentially they ran 4 or 5 loads and came back with comments like "should work fine, nice and low pressure trace"
    Or "Might be ok, but don't change anything"
    To "Ok we are going to post this but we don't recomend it"
    This is too hot, don't go this far.

    Now I copied some of that stuff but I did not bookmark it.

    In the past, WWI and WWII era if someone did something stupid, blew up a gun, knocked off body parts. They would just accept responsibility. Lawyers seldom got into it.

    Today it is a whole nother mindset. And no one is going to accept liability for posting data with nothing to gain. And there really is not enough demand to make it happen.

    No one wants to take a chance.

    The big powder company's cover the basics, and they lower amounts every decade, and they cover their tails as best they can.

    And I don't blame them. And they do it so they can keep selling product. Because if the data is not there people stop buying the powder.

    But with brass shotgun shells the tolerances are so much closer. You are not talking 40,000 PSI or 55,000 PSI we are talking minor changes going from 10000 psi to an unsafe over 12500. With just a primer, or a wad.

    There is no safety factor, no room for error.

    No some will say with modern guns and modern steel it is not a problem.
    So and so tried to blow up a .410 made in ?? and could not do it.

    Well yeah, maybe. The problem is damage is cumulative. Stretches, weakens, until it breaks, and then it totally lets go.

    I love the look of the brass shells. Love the feel, the whole works.
    And I have them in several calibers. And some of them are loaded.
    And I have made tool kits so if the SHTF I can take large pistol primers and reload them. And in that situation, at need need, I will use them. I will test them, and I will make them work.

    Today, I can buy factory ammo, and normal componants for every shotgun I own.
    I do not have a "need" to shoot brass, to push the edge.
    I can manage without them.

    So like many things most of mine are loaded, labeled, and stashed against the day I need them. All the time hoping I never do.

    That is me, YMMV.

    Be safe, be smart, grow old and wise with all your fingers and parts.
    That is my advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetualStudent View Post
    That's the thing that puzzles me GhostHawk. During WWI and WWII the shotguns that we used had some paper ammo, but the paper swelled and deformed in the mag. So we issued Brass Shotshells. I haven't been able to find any of the data, or even the original producers, but I can't imagine they used Black Powder. So it's been done about a hundred years ago but nobody official wants to talk about it.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I used a very slight roll crimp on mine; just enough to hold the overshot card in place then I painted the top with thinned Elmer's glue to secure it. Never had any problem with lost shot and the slight roll on the case mouth usually straightened right out when I shot those shells. I still have one box of those Remingtons that I'm saving for a "rainy day".

  14. #14
    Boolit Man Markopolo's Avatar
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    Yes I anneal my brass shells... I use my lead pot and dip them... I split a few in the beginning, but then discovered that just a slight crimp is required... I use the RCBS cowboy die set to do it...

    I would also tell you that if you can find the zinc Alcan shells, those really flex well... never split one of them, and they use the 209 primers...
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I don't understand when you say info is non existent, do a Google search and there is lots out there. One thing to consider is that the internal diameter of a brass case is larger than plastic hulls. Therefore, you need to use 11 ga. wads so as to build up the pressure needed for proper ignition.
    NRA Life
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  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
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    thank you ill keep looking then as i only need to load B/P with #6 and #4 shot for my old none nitro proofed shotgun to do a little bit of quail and duck hunting.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check