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Thread: 1911 to Glock

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    1911 to Glock

    I ran into a LEO I have known for several years. He always had a holstered Kimber 1911 on his hip and shot it VERY well. Today he was wearing a Glock something. He is the Chief of a local police department. When I commented on his different side arm he told me that the cops in his department would not maintain their Kimbers so they had been forced to switch to what he called "combat tuperware".

    I am not commenting on one vs. the other just posting this for a topic of general interest.
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

    Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    "he told me that the cops in his department would not maintain their Kimbers"

    If he's the "Chief" then who's fault is that?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #3
    Boolit Master OS OK's Avatar
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    "combat tuperware" . . . . . ."that's rich!"
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    I do find the story interesting. Here's one that's somewhat on point. I think I told it before, but it's a good one.

    I worked with the same LEO partner for several months on swing and graveyard shifts during the Calif. Coastal rainy, rainy winter season. Nightly we would find ourselves out in the rain at such activities as traffic accidents, trees across a mountainous county road putting out flares to avoid another accident, etc. Although we wore rain gear, you can't bury your handgun too deeply if you expect to get at it quickly if you need it.

    After reaching home at the end of a shift I would always remove my 6" Mod. 19 S&W and dump the cartridges, wipe the gun down, and run a lightly oiled patch through the bore. I'd wipe out the cylinder chambers as well, but then dry them before reinserting the cartridges. My partner carried an identical weapon.

    Upon entering the County Jail with an arrestee one was required to remove their handgun from its holster and place it in any available lock box in a series of them mounted in the concrete wall, remove and pocket the key. This was carefully watched on a video camera from upstairs on the 3rd floor where the actual lock up was located, and should a forgetful officer forget to secure his weapon loud disapproval would immediately issue from a speaker.

    On one occasion, after returning down in the elevator from the 3rd floor, I inserted the key, removed my revolver, and opened the cylinder to assure myself that it was indeed loaded, then holstered. My partner observed this action and inquired about it. I explained that it had just become routine with me, perhaps to assure myself that after doing my little nightly maintenance routine at the end of the shift that I had indeed reloaded it. Wouldn't want to need to fire it and have it just go "click", you know. My partner stated that it was indeed a good idea and that he would henceforth follow the cylinder inspection routine himself.

    Unfortunately his cylinder wouldn't open. It wouldn't turn either. Nor would the hammer cock. Completely rusted up internally from our many nights in the rain, but not much externally, except visible when viewed from the side in the area of the forcing cone and cylinder ratchet. Fortunately we were near the end of the shift. I took it home to fix it for him, as although a brilliant and talented person in many areas, gunsmithing was not among his abilities. A couple of judicious smacks with a rubber mallet did not budge the cylinder or its latch, so an overnight soak with the grips removed in a small tub of kerosene allowed the side plate screws to be removed the next day and I was able to disassemble, clean and oil the mechanism. As I worked on it I reflected on the implications of having a LEO partner with a nonoperational weapon, and it did make me pucker.

    So, I do see the Chief's train of thought here. Not all LEOs are "gun nuts", many viewing them as just another tool and worthy of no special consideration except just prior to the infrequent formal inspection. At least plastic doesn't rust. Maybe they'll sell the Kimbers as surplus? Somebody will get lucky!

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    Boolit Master




    EMC45's Avatar
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    I've seen a Knoxville LEO a few times in Knoxville carrying a 1911. Much respect!
    You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I hear this happen to a few Cops with Glocks. Put their Glock on the bathroom coat hanger. Grab the Glock hit the trigger on the hanger put a round in the ceiling. One cop his fired twice. Explain that one to a chief. A cock and locked 45 will not do this.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Don't expect LEO's to be "gun nuts" anymore than I expect soldiers to be. However, frequent inspections of equipment should be done, especially those items that are critical, not only by the LEO's but by their 1st line and above supervisors. On the spot corrections should be made including disciplinary action to frequent offenses. Yeah, I see the chief's lazy train of thought too. However, if my "partner" had a frozen shut revolver like that I'd be kicking myself in the *** because I let the situation get that way. Partners should also look out for each other and making sure each other are fully operational is part of it....that goes for equipment.

    Maybe I'm a hard *** but I'm here today because of it and so are a lot of my fellow LEOs and soldiers.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Don't expect LEO's to be "gun nuts" anymore than I expect soldiers to be. However, frequent inspections of equipment should be done, especially those items that are critical, not only by the LEO's but by their 1st line and above supervisors. On the spot corrections should be made including disciplinary action to frequent offenses. Yeah, I see the chief's lazy train of thought too. However, if my "partner" had a frozen shut revolver like that I'd be kicking myself in the *** because I let the situation get that way. Partners should also look out for each other and making sure each other are fully operational is part of it....that goes for equipment.

    Maybe I'm a hard *** but I'm here today because of it and so are a lot of my fellow LEOs and soldiers.
    In liberal cities it would be bad for your career if you were preceived to be a firearms enthusiast or pro Second Amendment

  9. #9
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    It really isn't a matter of being firearms enthusiast in my opinion. It is a matter of survival on that job.
    If a person doesn't care enough to ensure their protective equipment, including their firearm, is fully functional, what does that say about how much they care about their partner and their own self.
    Last edited by tazman; 08-03-2017 at 04:39 AM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    Definitely not a liberal city.
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

    Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

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    Boolit Master


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    I agree with Larry Gibson....dont really care what others think as long as they maintain their weapon.....Carried a firearm since 1974 in L.E. and have known so many officers that didnt maintain their weapons.....it is a tool that if you do not maintain it will fail when the chips are down. When I trained I explained the necessity of maintaining their weapons and it seemed to work. Those that were indifferent to their maintenance were generally lazy and useless so I tried to not be around them. The one time spam hit the fan for me everything worked as it should.....
    When guns are outlawed only criminals and the government will have them and at that time I will see very little difference in either!

    "Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems man faces." President Ronald Reagan

    "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the law breaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is acoutable for his actions." Presdent Ronald Reagan

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Ahhh. . .the joys of trying to find something that's idiot-proof, coupled with the failure to realize that idiots are ENDLESSLY inventive.

    There's not maintaining the gun AT ALL, for which a Glock is, in truth, one of the better ones. You get high round count breakages of small parts with the older variant .40 and .357 guns, but as far as just letting it dry out, get rained on, or just ignored, it's hard to top.

    Then there's maintaining the gun WRONG. I'd rather have a Glock not cleaned at all than have it cleaned by a guy who wets every surface down with the wazoo flavor of the month solvent and enthusiastically scrubs with a toothbrush. . .forcing all manner of goo into the working guts which he isn't authorized to take apart at his level. Old Slabsides probably does a little better at that, but it ain't great method for ANYTHING.

    Either way, an armorer should be checking it out at reasonable intervals and undertaking the task of setting the clueless straight.
    WWJMBD?

    Buried in molds until covered with mold.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    IMO it is not a matter of being a firearms enthusiast at all.

    If you are doing a job that your safety requires you to be able to use a tool. You treat that tool right. Does not matter if it is a rigid pipe wrench or a S&W Revolver.

    If your life is riding on the line you take the time, do the due diligence to make sure.
    Anything less is pure foolishness.

    An officer found with a gun in that condition should have been fired. He is a danger to himself and others.

    And it is my experience that most times such people don't learn well from there mistakes until it is too late.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Well, Larry, Taz, Paul and GhostHawk, you fellows do me a disservice by your criticism. Firstly, the officer was only about 6 months my junior time on the job, and went through the same academy as I did. The two of you that I know or believe have been LEOs probably never subjected your partner and peer to a weapons inspection, especially if he was long past the rookie stage, which this fellow was, having about 10 years on the job at the time. Perhaps it was the hand of God that things worked out the way they did. I did give him a pithy lecture on firearms maintenance and one's responsibility to themselves, their partners, wives and children, and doubt if it ever happened again. Personally, I've always been more of the mind set to make sure that my stuff was all squared away and to assume that the other guy felt the same way. I'm about all I can handle!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Der Gebirgsjager wrote: "I'm about all I can handle!"

    Truer words have never been uttered. He took care of himself and helped his fellow officer when the need arose.

    I think he handled that perfectly. He found the problem, addressed it, corrected the issue and they both moved on.
    Could it have ended poorly? - yes but it didn't. We deal with what does happen not what could happen.

    A gun is a tool. A parachute is a tool. A life jacket is a tool. etc, Sometimes that lack of maintenance has disastrous results and sometimes it is a learning opportunity. Thankfully in Der Gebirgsjager's situation it was merely learning opportunity.

    You can drive a car for 40 years and never need a seatbelt or airbags. A fighter pilot could go his entire career and never need a parachute. A fisherman could work his lifetime and never need a lifejacket. That doesn't mean those pieces of equipment should be neglected but it does show how they can be neglected. In the grand scheme, a Glock may be functional more often than other types of handguns and that alone may be enough to improve the overall odds of survival for a collective group of officers.
    If your goal is to give the most officers, the best chance you can; a Glock may be the best tool in the overall scheme considering some officers will neglect their firearms. Sometimes simple is good.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    Well, Larry, Taz, Paul and GhostHawk, you fellows do me a disservice by your criticism. Firstly, the officer was only about 6 months my junior time on the job, and went through the same academy as I did. The two of you that I know or believe have been LEOs probably never subjected your partner and peer to a weapons inspection, especially if he was long past the rookie stage, which this fellow was, having about 10 years on the job at the time. Perhaps it was the hand of God that things worked out the way they did. I did give him a pithy lecture on firearms maintenance and one's responsibility to themselves, their partners, wives and children, and doubt if it ever happened again. Personally, I've always been more of the mind set to make sure that my stuff was all squared away and to assume that the other guy felt the same way. I'm about all I can handle!
    I wasn't criticizing you. I was criticizing your partner.
    You did everything as well as you could have. Your partner failed to keep up his end.
    Fortunately, it didn't turn out badly.
    As I said, it is a matter of survival on the job.

  17. #17
    Boolit Man am44mag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncer50 View Post
    I hear this happen to a few Cops with Glocks. Put their Glock on the bathroom coat hanger. Grab the Glock hit the trigger on the hanger put a round in the ceiling. One cop his fired twice. Explain that one to a chief. A cock and locked 45 will not do this.
    Someone who follows basic gun safety practices, and uses some common sense won't do it either.
    ______________________________________________
    Aaron

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    A gun is a tool.....

    Never saw an engraved hammer or screwdriver. Guns are special.
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

    Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    As a retired LEO of 33 years I have noticed during shooting qualifications a number of officers that had malfunctions The range officer would take their weapon and check it out and usually completely strip it and clean it and the it would function perfectly. In my last job, of 20 years, we would qualify every 6 months and the same officers that had problems 6 months prior often had problems again. This last job most of us carried Glocks and a good share of us worked by our selves. I believe that those officers that were interested in their job and were self starters didn't usually have any problems with their weapons.

    I must say this about Glocks. Back in the 80's when I first heard of Glock I was one of the first to criticize them as junk and coming in a "Tupperware" box. I was still critical until 1991 when I started a new job and most of the officers carried Glocks and I started to see how reliable and simple they were and yes I changed to a Glock 17 and carried it to retirement. That Glock had thousands of rounds through it and I don't think I ever had any malfunctions with it. Glocks are very good LEO "tools" but do need a good disassembly and wipe down occasionally. Glock is only one of the current manufacturers of polymer handguns that are excellent but it takes the LEO to do his job and keep it that way.

    Ken

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    Boolit Master




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    The guys and gals here carry Sigs. Some quite old, but still functional. I will work on them and inspect them for defects however, I have told many of them on multiple occasions: This is life saving equipment. It may save yours or your fellow Ranger's life. Take care of it. Familiarize yourself with it and clean and maintain it. If not you may be killed. Simple as that.
    You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.

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