3 or 5 shot Groups?

[M-Tecs]

I have a Savage 99 that easily holds 1 moa for 3 shots. After that it starts walking badly. Since this is a big game rifle it will never shoot more than three shots. A ten shot group does not tell me what the load or I can do. It does tell me that it walks after three shots but for its intended use that information is totally useless.

My long range competition rifles or my prairie dog rifles need to hold well under 1 moa in from cold to very hot and yes that is under field conditions.

Test it how your are going to use it.

[Thundarstick]

Test it how your are going to use it.

This rite here!

I had a barrel on a10/22 that would put bullets in the same hole, AFTER the first two rounds walked in from about an inch out! The mysterious cold bore flier! I was told, "what's the big deal, put the first two in the berm and shoot your target groups". Is a hunting rifle! The first round is really the only one that counts! That barrel got replaced!

[Lloyd Smale]

brings up another point. When I shoot what I'm calling 3/ 5 shot groups its more like that I'm shooting 15 shots without letting the barrel get so hot I cant hold it with my hand. I'm more concerned that when I shoot that gun the ONE time I'm going to kill something that it will ALLWAYS put one or two with in a known distance from the center of the crosshair. Expectable is dependent on how far out that shot might come. for a lever gun that wont see over 200 yards 2 inch is plenty good. For a bolt gun like an 06 308 257rob 243 ect I may need out to 300 yards and like at least a 1.5 inch group. For Anything further or for a mag rifle I want 1 inch and for a varmint gun closer to 3/4s and preferably 1/2 inch. Again that group size is for 15 shots fired slowly on at least two different days

That is the camp I am in. High power competition shooters have different needs. And there are no pararie dog towns in Michigan, so even my varmint guns do not see many rounds in a short period of time.

[BHill]

When developing loads for revolvers I'll shoot four 6 shot groups. That way I have the cold gun group and can follow any differences as the fouling/heat changes. I generally look for a load that can perform throughout.

For rifles I'll shoot three five shot groups at 100/200 and 600 yards with a cold gun at the start of each string. This is after the initial load developement. Initial is three 3 shot groups x however many loads.

BR
BHill

[BHill]

I should add that the above is for a hunting rifle. Competition rifles were two 10 shot groups at the required distance.

[atr]

hunting rifle...for me its three shots,,,
then with a cold barrel 1 shot,,,because its the first shot out of a cold barrel that counts.

[Smoke4320]

hunting rifle...for me its three shots,,,
then with a cold barrel 1 shot,,,because its the first shot out of a cold barrel that counts.

Same for me .. but then follow with several 1 shot "cold groups" over several days hopefully under different weather conditions
If it doesn't repeat move on to a different load

[Tripplebeards]

I only shoot 3 shot groups being I've never needed to shoot more than that while hunting...if I did I'd give it up. Every year I hear some yahoo emptying their mag, reload, and do it again. 99.9% it's one shot for me and my animal is down for the count.

3 shot groups for me...just like my POF group at a 100 yards in my avatar.

[AK Caster]

I rarely shoot for groups. The only shot that matters is the first. I will sometimes shot one shot, put the rifle away, then shoot another a few weeks later.

[white eagle]

when I develop a hunting load I use 3 shots for each differing charge
usually 5 3 shot groups
my way of thinking is I use only 1 when hunting so why waste time ammo and energy
making more ammo
the only advantage to 5 shot groups is being able to shoot more
well while the 5 shot people are firing the last of their groups I am making a box of hunting ammo and
moving on to another powder bullet combo

[Ramjet-SS]

I am Hunter I sight in every hand load group fo ammo. But to tell the truth I stand off at hunting distance use a full size deer silouette target and fire a magzine full at the vitals fo the target. If I take home card board meat then the rifle/load is doing its job. I understand accuracy and target guys are far more precise. But frankly just like today; stood off 80 yards off hand and fired 4 rounds from my Ruger Gunsite 450 Bushmaster (2x scout scope mounted forward the receiver) at the deer target as fast as I could aquire the kill zone in the scope and work the bolt. 4 rounds in athe heart and lungs 4" group. I am happy with that load. Mihec 270 grain HP PB over 29.6 grins of IMR 4227. Now I will do that many times over the next 2 months and then comes the hunt...😄

[Zeebob]

All my rifles are for hunting. 3 shot groups to test my loads.. Then the rifles are sighted in at 200yds, and checked at 300 and 350yds to see how the load is performing.. Works for me, no shortage of meat in our freezer...

If I was a target guy my approach might be different.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I let the rifle and the end use determine the number of shots in a group that I use. If it is a No1 with a light forend, etc, to be used on deer where I will fire one shot and on the very rare occasions, fire a second, I'm interested in how the first couple of shots will do and therefore, I'll use three shot groups. So what if it opens up after the fourth or fifth shot, I won't be firing them until tomorrow anyway and the barrel will be cool again, and cleaned.

If I'm using a big barreled Remington 700 for varmint or target use, I'll go five shot groups and re-shoot those groups again to confirm it.

[Gunners Mate]

Probably in reality there is no correct answer, however I like 3 shot strings for load development and 10 shot strings to confirm handloads. Here is my latest from my brand new second hand 300 win mag 3 shots are under the nickle made 1/2 MOA correction on the scope the remaining seven shots measured 0.314 inches measured by the special caliper instrument used for scoring bench rest matches. This 10 shot string was fired at 100 yards, I am old school and have a dedicated reloading set up to take to the range for R&D FYI it took two days and about 50 - 3 shot strings (not counting foulers) to find a load this rifle liked.

[Josh Smith]

For me, it depends on shooting speed.

The rifles I shoot are mostly skinny barrel military bolt action. With a Mosin-Nagant it's relatively easy to keep under 1moa or so with three shots from a cold, dirty barrel, shooting as quickly as I can work the action and aim.

However, shots four and five can take the group to 2moa.

If, however, I let it cool for a minute between rounds, it'll hold the precision through five rounds.

More than that and it has to cool between strings.

The G88/05 seems slightly better, but the ammo isn't as hot, and the barrel is sleeved.

Personally, I find the wait between rounds to be more than I can bear sometimes, and my accuracy isn't all that great most times for that reason.

Regards,

Josh