Iver Johnson .410

[Battis]

My question is not on how to reload for a .410, but is it worth it?
I have an old Iver Johnson Champion on hold for a week (not sure how old it is, but it's old). It can take 3" shells. But here's the thing - I like old guns for their history, and I like to shoot them. So where would the 410 fit in? I don't hunt so that leaves that out. I shoot trap from a step-on thrower but I'm thinking that shooting trap with a 410 would be a challenge (and probably fun). Home defense? It wouldn't be the first gun I reached for.
.410 shells cost more than .12 and .20 (I have a few of each).
So, in the overall scheme of things, is that cool old gun worth having? They're asking $160 and it's in really good shape.

[rondog]

I used to have one, it was my grandma's and the wood was painted gloss black whoknowswhen. I had to sell it years ago, but I'd sure pay $160 to get it back.

[too many things]

opinion ---- the price is high but if you look real interested it will stay there . Offer 125, next ,reloading will cost a lot to set up , best would be to check gun auction sites and you can find 410 for around $5 to 6 a box . 410 is a different reloading curve , hulls dont last unless you want to stay with a 2-1/2 load , then you can use 444 brass and load by hand .
hope you find what you want

[Reverend Al]

You can also make everlasting brass .410 hulls from .303 British cases fire-formed straight ...

[megasupermagnum]

I don't like the .410 much, and I love my big bores. I don't even like 20 gauge, when I can have my 16 at the same weight. It can certainly be used to hunt. Grouse, rabbits, any small game really. Even pheasant, or turkey(not legal in MN), although ranges will be limited by the sparse pattern. You can kill deer with it with slugs, although for some reason it's argued about. It's like shooting a shoulder fired .41 mag or 10mm auto.

You can certainly shoot clays with it for fun. From just a regular thrower like that, it's not even much of a challenge. I've shot a bolt action .410 plenty of times for clays, and never had any problems hitting them.

[GhostHawk]

Well I started out with a .410, Mossberg bolt action, 3 shot. I cussed it a lot.
Until the day I managed to pull a really good sneak on a pair of mallards on a gravel pit pond. They were less than 30 yards, all I had was 6's. I patterned that pair of ducks perfectly 3 times. And they flew off. I mean they were swimming close together, and while I saw a few shot hit outside of them. Mostly they took the majority of it, times 3.

I got mad, went home told dad.
He got quiet. How much you got in your savings account?
Well gee dad, let me look. ehhh little over 6k. Mowing lawns mostly, some farm work.
Saved half of every dollar I earned.

Dad says " I think you can get a pretty good pump gun for around 200 to 250$. I think you've earned it. Less than a week later It was being fitted for me. Remington 870 wingmaster with nice wood, vent rib I was a late bloomer and a year out of school and I was pushing 4 feet 3 inches.

Bob Platt my lGS owner cut that stock down to fit me. Kept the piece for years in case I wanted to expoxy it back on someday.

What a difference between a .410 and a 20.
Me and that 20 became both a team, and a killing machine. We ate GOOD.
Grouse, Hungarian partridge, rabbit, squirrel, duck, goose. Yes the 20 will kill a goose. If you have the right load and the right lead.

I still have both, and yes I do reload some for the .410. I don't hunt anymore, would not with it. But, it would work well for a spouse or a middle sized serious kid.

I have fireformed some .303 british for it, and bought a few boxes of .410 magtech brass hulls. You won't find smokeless data for those btw.

Your on your own, just like the rest of us. No one wants the liability and responsibility for publishing those loads.

I made my own kit for reloading. Pretty simple stuff really. Bought the right size wads, nitro cards, punch out my own overshot cards from plastic milk jug.

And I bought a .410 mold and cast several "slug" loads for it.
In a pinch, better than a pistol is my opinion.

.410 is a challenge, but what else do we have to do?

[nagantguy]

Iver Johnson Champion .410 was my very first gun;my father traded 25 auto for it when he learned he was having a son. Lots and lots and lots of memories in that old gun! $160 does seem to be at the top of price range, but for a really nice one I'd pay that.

[Markopolo]

Sir... you buy that shotgun!!! Start running it with BP... round balls, Slugs, alll kinda fun stuff.. make you some brass shells... make some tri-ball loads.. experiment... have some fun... drill the stock and turn it into an awesome survival gun!! The options are endless for someone with a bit of imagination!

[richhodg66]

My uncle died a few years ago and one of those Iver Johnson Champions turned up in his stuff my Dad and everybody else couldn't remember ever seeing before. Uncle wasn't really a gun enthusiast though he had a few working guns. Anyway, nobody else wanted it, and I had the itch to have a rook rifle built so I took it. Still haven't shot it yet and have decided I can get a better platform for the Rook rifle. I have some .410 shells and plan to eventually reload brass shells for it. I think .410 is probably the only gauge really worth loading for it since it's specialty ammo.

[Battis]

Good replies for both sides of the .410. It's relatively cheap, in good shape - I might refinish the wood. I do have a .410 sleeve for an old 20 ga New England Pardner that I shoot at the berm once in awhile. I also have a black powder caplock 10 ga British muzzleloading side by side shotgun that is probably even more useless but a lot of fun.
Black powder loads for the .410? Interesting, as is the brass .303 hulls.
I'm glad I asked. The store holds it for a week at no cost - I'll check it out again.

[beemer]

It's hard to find a H & R for that price around here. I keep a H & R .410 behind the door, it's fitted with a sling and an ammo sleeve on the stock. It's one of the best pesky critter getters I have.

Reloading can be a pain and probably really not worth it but I do it anyway, it's a hobby and doesn't need to make sense. If I bought shells with what I have spent I would never shoot them up.

Brass cases would be the easiest way to go. You can do anything from very light snake loads with fine shot to a load of 2-3 .395 balls.

Dave

[Markopolo]

Please let us know what you decide!!!! You would spend more then that on a day out or a dinner at a nice restaurant with the family.. but the 410 will last for a lot longer then a good meal... a single shot 410 the barrel comes right off and into the sink for a bit of dawn and hot water... instant muzzleloader... quick to clean, and fun to experiment with.. chop the choke off if you wanna really have some fun and get a 41cal wad cutter mold.. Now that is having a good time...

Marko

[codgerville@zianet.com]

Iver Johnson Champion .410 was my very first gun;my father traded 25 auto for it when he learned he was having a son. Lots and lots and lots of memories in that old gun! $160 does seem to be at the top of price range, but for a really nice one I'd pay that.

My first gun was an Iver Johnson Champion 410 my Grandad gave me in about 1948 and it brought home many rabbits and squirrels.

[Battis]

I have a New England Pardner 20 ga single shot that is just about the worst gun I ever shot. It kicks way out of proportion to what it should. I'm going to see what they'll give me in trade towards that .410. Probably about $50 which is what I paid for it.

[izzyjoe]

I have a New England Pardner 20 ga single shot that is just about the worst gun I ever shot. It kicks way out of proportion to what it should. I'm going to see what they'll give me in trade towards that .410. Probably about $50 which is what I paid for it.

i know what you mean there, those light little 20's kick like the devil, especially with a heavy turkey load or slug! 410's are my favorite, I've dabbled with reloading for them but not much. Most people underestimate the 410 cause of it small stature, but I can attest they will kill a deer dead in it's tracks. I remember stories from old timers from the Deppression, and a lot of them feed there families with the lowly little 410.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Anything will kill anything dead in its tracks once in a while, and I wouldn't consider the .410 slug acceptable for anything much over fox size. The people who use pistols for deer mostly do so from a desire to accept as a challenge the limitations of a pistol. But deliberately accepting the limitations of a .410 seems pretty questionable.

I don't even consider it much of a bird gun. Birds just keep on flying, but in thick brush a rabbit can appear at your feet and be safe at ten or fifteen yards. That is the situation where the lightness and speed of a .410 comes into its own, when the rabbit will be either missed or messy with something larger.

The one-time gospel that you get better patterns with a larger calibre than a longer cartridge isn't quite as true as it used to be. Shot-cup wads and steel shot have made quite a difference. But there is still truth in it, and especially with the 3in. .410 as compared with a light 28 or 20. For me the best .410 is the 2½in. within its limits.

I also like the very light Belgian .410s, which used to be sold in such numbers, usually with no maker's name. There is a good current thread on these. With a low pressure but easily available cartridge, such as the .32 S&W Long, they are a good basis for a rook rifle the way rook rifles used to be.

[richhodg66]

I have a New England Pardner 20 ga single shot that is just about the worst gun I ever shot. It kicks way out of proportion to what it should. I'm going to see what they'll give me in trade towards that .410. Probably about $50 which is what I paid for it.

Kind of funny you come to that conclusion about it. I have kind of reached the conclusion that a break open 20 gauge single is about the most versatile gun a guy can have. I started with a H&R Topper when I was 14 or so and still have it. Used a little Savage 220 this past Fall for Squirrels and was messing with .60 caliber round balls in a couple of different ones and based on the conditions and methods I hunt, I'd have no problems killing a deer with one. Simple, cheap and effective, Easy carrying and come up and point quicker than any other kind. I never found the recoil from one objectionable, but I only shoot 2 3/4 inch shells and don't put hundreds of rounds in a session through one.

[Markopolo]

I shoot a couple of different 12g singles as well as the several 410 singles I have... they all are pretty awesome, but the CBE 12g single does kick a harder with full house loads cuz it's lighter and has no butt buffer. I have another one that I turned into a smooth bore slugger, and I drilled a couple of holes in the stock and added a couple lbs of lead, and gave it a decent butt pad... that did the trick... the lighter the gun, the sharper the recoil in my experience. It is especially noticeable when you try out them ultra light guns and pistol's.. I tried one of them titanium 44 mags once with a normal to me warm load and thought I was gunna break my wrist. I only shot it once....

Marko

[Battis]

The 20 ga New England Pardner is all business. I got it as a home defense gun - the 1st shotgun I ever bought. Short barrel, lightweight, it's actually good for home defense. I don't hunt, but if I did, I agree that it'd be a good gun to lug around. But it kicks. If I had to use it in a defense situation, I'd probably preface the shot with, "This might hurt me more than it hurts you."

[Outpost75]

My question is not on how to reload for a .410, but is it worth it?
I have an old Iver Johnson Champion on hold for a week (not sure how old it is, but it's old). It can take 3" shells. But here's the thing - I like old guns for their history, and I like to shoot them. So where would the 410 fit in? I don't hunt so that leaves that out. I shoot trap from a step-on thrower but I'm thinking that shooting trap with a 410 would be a challenge (and probably fun). Home defense? It wouldn't be the first gun I reached for.
.410 shells cost more than .12 and .20 (I have a few of each).
So, in the overall scheme of things, is that cool old gun worth having? They're asking $160 and it's in really good shape.

If you don't hunt, I don't see the point in the .410. It IS a subsistence hunter's gun, not for clay birds or target shooting.

What else could you do with $160 burning a hole in your pocket? You could get a useful quantity of .22 LR ammo for that.

But don't get me wrong, I love my .410, as a gentleman's walking companion and small game and garden gun.

Truckloads of small game have gone into the pot. THAT's what its for...