Tell me about lube-sizers

[am44mag]

I've known about lube-sizers for awhile now, but I've never really looked into them until recently. Right now, I'm using LEE sizing dies, and I either tumble lube, or pan lube. I hate how nasty the tumble lube is, and pan lube is a PITA. After looking at some sizers, I have a few questions. I noticed that older Lyman sizers go for under $100 here (the 45 and 450 IIRC). I've seen 3 in the last couple weeks. Are there any disadvantages to getting one of them vs a new $200 model? How about top punches? I have 20 molds, none of which came with nose punches. How much trouble is that going to cause to get them? I think the Star lube-sizer works similar to a LEE sizer and doesn't require a top punch, but dang are they expensive.

[Bazoo]

I recently purchased and started using my first lube sizer, a lyman 450. I bought it used off the forum here. I did some research on them first. I found that most people dont have any problems with the 450, and those that do either got a bad one, or are doing something with it that is harder on it than it was designed for.

The handles on the 450 have been known to break. And the 4500 solved that with a stronger handle design. However, many folks have never have a problem with their 450. The one I have, I could see how it would break, if I was using to bump up a small bullet by forcing it in the die. Or if I was sizing .010 or something ridiculous. But under normal use, I dont expect any problems.

The other main difference between the 4500 and the 450 is that the 4500 is made to accept, and normally comes with a lube heater. The 450 can be adapted to use a heater by a separate heated base plate. But is not needed unless you have a lube that requires it. I used the wifes hair dryer on the hard lube I used. It worked great.

One thing I can tell you is that the machine sized the bullets and they come out clean. The noses aint got no lube on them, unlike push through lee dies that force lube on the nose during sizing. The base of the bullet is pretty clean too. Mine aint perfectly clean, but I didnt fool with trying to adjust it better as it was clean enough for my tastes.

As for top punches, i did some research on that too. Turns out if you have a bullet with a flat point, you can use a flat top punch. Accurate mold company sells a set of three, in different sizes for 8 bucks shipped. Only if you use a spire point or round nose do you need a top punch that exactly matches the nose of the bullet.

This is what i've learned.

~Bazoo

[therealhitman]

I think the Star lube-sizer works similar to a LEE sizer and doesn't require a top punch, but dang are they expensive.

The Star lets you feed the boolit nose first, so one flat "bottom" punch per die does it all. Worth every penny. Just get one now and save yourself some time. Good chance you'll end up talking yourself into one eventually anyway lol.

[Hamish]

If your tumble lube is "nasty", as the popular saying goes, you're doing it wrong.

I personally prefer the 45 to the 450, but anyone who has bought a Star says they are far superior to any other.

[dragon813gt]

A Star is the Cadillac of lube sizers and it has an entry price reflecting such. It's by far the fastest sizer. But everything about it is expensive. It has some disadvantages when it comes to non FP bullets. But there are work arounds.

Next up is the RCBS/Lyman design. The RCBS is stronger and the one I recommend. Dies and top punches are interchangeable between the two. They are slower because they are in/out design. There are no issues w/ non FP bullets since you're sizing one bullet at a time. But they have issues w/ hollow and bevel base molds. There are workarounds for this. But like the Star they add time to the process.

I have four RCBS LAM1s and a Star. For small runs I will use one of the LAMs. Having one for each lube makes things easy. For large runs, almost always pistol bullets, I will use the Star. Air cylinder and bullet feeder make it a breeze to size. It's also a lot less strain on my elbows. Setup time is why I don't use it for small runs. It's a lot faster to set up a LAM.

[beezapilot]

I've not tried it yet, but saw that if you do have a boolit with an unusual nose profile, you can take a piece of 1/4 inch tubing, flare it, put in in the top punch boss, fill it with hot glue, lower it on to an OILED boolit on the sizing die and allow the glue to form to the profile and harden. May not hold up for a long time, but they are easy enough to make / reform. I run an RCBS and don't like it as well as the vintage Lyman 45 I grew up with.

[williamwaco]

I have used Lyman 45 and all its descendents. Also RCBS and Star for 60 years. When I discovered LLA, I tossed them all.

Then I discovered BLL and tossed the LLA. (Ben's Liquid Lube)

Like Hamish said if your bullets are "nasty", you are doing it wrong.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have two RCBS sizing units that are both in their fourth decade of use.

For top punches, just check the company's web site for the appropriate punch for the mould if it's a common model. For an uncommon mould make, just make a good estimate or comparison to an available mould's ogive that matches closely to what you have and order its specific top punch. I have so many top punches now that it's pretty easy to find a match.

For flat meplat bullets, I just use a top punch designed for a 41 SWC and it gets the job done for numerous designs in my inventory.

[Jack Stanley]

The Star is pricey for a very good reason as are the RCBS machines any cheaper and they'd be of the same (ahem) "quality" as the "Smartreloader" ....... product line . The lee line up is there for you if you wish to work on maximum cheap factor . The others have their own benefits that will show up time after time .

Jack

[AbitNutz]

I was once the King of Lubrisizers....an air powered Star is my pride and joy. I had 4 or more Lyman and RCBS's around almost all heated...one was even ALF equipped. I have/had almost every sizer die up or down around the popular calibers. I had numerous types and mixes of lubricants...The money I have invested in lubers over the past 25 years is shocking....but then it happened

....coated bullets. Specifically Hi-Tek. I rarely touch the lubers now. I only use one for special occasions, like my ROA BigLube bullets or some other Black powder bullet. Shooting coated bullets with black just doesn't seem right. I haven't gone completely to the dark side.

But for me at least, Hi-Tek coating have almost completely replaced lubrisizing...your milage may vary.

[TexasGrunt]

I was once the King of Lubrisizers....an air powered Star is my pride and joy. I had 4 or more Lyman and RCBS's around almost all heated...one was even ALF equipped. I have/had almost every sizer die up or down around the popular calibers. I had numerous types and mixes of lubricants...The money I have invested in lubers over the past 25 years is shocking....but then it happened

....coated bullets. Specifically Hi-Tek. I rarely touch the lubers now. I only use one for special occasions, like my ROA BigLube bullets or some other Black powder bullet. Shooting coated bullets with black just doesn't seem right. I haven't gone completely to the dark side.

But for me at least, Hi-Tek coating have almost completely replaced lubrisizing...your milage may vary.

I've only been casting for about 8 months.

Started with PC and then tried Hi-Tek. I rarely PC anymore.

I've got a Star sitting on my bench. Just waiting to get top punches and a die removal tool. Then I'll use my NOE adaptor and bushings to size my Hi-Tek coated bullets.

[marlin39a]

I've got 3 Lyman 450's. One is over 40 yrs old. 2 are heated. I mount them on a 12" piece of 2x6, and c-clamp them to the bench when needed. I run the 2 heated with carnauba red, and the other with carnauba blue. The unheated unit runs with 2500+. They make great boolits.

[AbitNutz]

For me, it's just a case of a better mouse trap. It has been my experience that NLG (no lube groove) bullets are easier to get good bullets out of faster. I also wonder if the increased bearing surface doesn't aid in some small amount to increased accuracy. Hi-Tek is just a better way for me to make cast bullets.

Hi-Tek produces better bullets, faster than traditional cast and lube method. I have an old Pacific Super Mag press that uses three dies stations and three rams. It also has the ability to reverse the stroke. So I mounted it upside down and put in three Lee bullet sizers. I can now size three bullets with each stroke of the handle.

Again, this is just my experience but if I were just starting out I wouldn't buy a lubrisizer. I would just go straight to Hi-Tek. My investment wasn't wasted because I used it for a couple of decades. I wouldn't do it now...

[dragon813gt]

Hi-Tek and PC are fine for pistol bullets. Step into rifle velocity territory and you have to do a whole lot of special stuff to make them shoot. And no matter what coating w/ either takes longer. People don't like to add up all the time baking and cooking. Same goes for tumble lube. It may be faster to tumble then but then you have to count dry time. BLL drastically cuts this time down but it's still there. W/ a traditional lube sizer as soon as the bullets are cool enough to handle you can run them through and they come out the other end ready to load. Not trying to deter anyone from using any method. But the lack of counting time happens the same w/ progressives when people don't add up filling primer tubes and powder hoppers.

[HP9MM]

I tried Ben's Liquid Lube and wasn't happy. I got an RCBS LAM 2 and have been real pleased with it. I use LBT Soft Blue which works very well. The owner of LBT recommends the RCBS machine also.

[DougGuy]

RCBS LAM 2 here as well, $80 NIB couldn't let it get away!

[wv109323]

I think what you can live with depends on how many and what type of bullets you are going to lube. The RCBS and Lyman are fine for rifle bullets at normal volumes. Lubing 200 rifle boolits would not be much of a chore.
But if you are going to lube 1000 .45 200gn. SWC a month, the Star is the only way to go. You do need top punches that force the boolit through the die straight. The top punch needs to contact the boolits and not distort the boolit nose. Like already stated boolits with flat surfaces can be sized with flat top punches. Also you can take a top punch that is close and chuck it in a drill and use a file to shape the top punch to match the boolit nose profile.

[am44mag]

Thanks fellas, looks like I have quite a few things to consider. I'm really tempted to get an older Lyman just because $80 is not a lot of money to drop. From what I've seen, I'd like a Star, but that price tag is hard to justify to me.

[Lloyd Smale]

tumble lube a bit longer and save your pennys and get a star. I don't know of anyone that ever did that regreted it in the long run.