Lyman slug wad substitution

[Ginsing]

I am new to shotgun loading and have a few questions regarding wad substitution.
Looking at the lyman 525 slug load data it shows both federal hulls with Universal powder and winchester wads.
Can I safely substitute that with federal 12S4 wads if I reduce the powder charge?
If you did use the winchester wad would there not be some powder migration?
Any help or explanation would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

[Hogtamer]

I shot a bunch of them and here are results...btw start with 40 gr if you use longshot.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...e-MP-Lyman-525

[Ginsing]

Some good results there however I am strictly looking at Universal powder. Unfortunatly where I live we don't have the luxury of being able to test many different powders. Powder availability for shotguns is limited to one or 2 type.
My main question is is it safe to substitute one wad for another and would I get powder migration if using a winchester wad in a federal hull

[Hogtamer]

I would not be afraid to sub similar cushion type wads but you're right, the win. wads may not be a good fit. An over powder card then the wad might work. Universal seems like a pretty fast powder for that weight slug though.

[megasupermagnum]

I could not find load data exactly what you want online, but I do see both Federal 12S3 and Winchester AA wads with Unique in a Winchester AA hull. Those two are very close. The Win AA wad is listed at 23 grains at 11,100 psi, and the Fed 12S3 with 22.5 gr at 10,500 psi. I would say that is a very safe swap.

[longbow]

I've got Unique and SR4756 you can load a few with to try if you want.

I have a bit of Blue Dot left but not much... I'm not sharing that! It's my favourite powder so far.

I'll have to see what Valley Firearms has for powder these days but you're right we don't get many choices here.

That's one of the reasons I like to keep slug weight around 1to 1 1/8 oz. because that falls into birdshot data payload weight so generally there is a powder or two available and it's is a good weight for Unique with real slug loads.

Let me know if you want to try one of those powders.

[Ginsing]

Federal Plastic Hunting

Univ. Clays 35.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1442fps 9,300psi
That's the data from lyman book.
Longbow I should be ok. Just planning ahead for if that mold ever shows up. I got a great deal on the universal powder so I bought it. I have hs-6 as well.
I called Valley firearms today all they have is hs-6 available.
I have no real need to get super speeds out of this load. Just for plinking mostly.
I do have have a chance at some 800x as well I might try in the future.

[Blood Trail]

I'd start with HS-6. And I wouldn't worry about subbing wads out. You're not gonna blow your gun up simply because you subbed a wad.

[Ginsing]

Unfortunatly there is no data on that slug with hs-6. I can use 1 1/4 oz shot data and go from there. According to burn rate charts universal is not far behind hs-6. Close enough that I'm hoping to get similar velocities with less powder. Guess I just have to try it out. Perhaps start 10% below max. 35 gr seems like a lot of universal powder

[megasupermagnum]

From what I see, I don't think you would get any more speed from HS-6, but I would try both. To be clear, you are using the Federal "hunting" hull with a fiber base (not plastic), correct?

Here is what I see for 1 1/4 oz data

Federal FB
CCI 209M
31.5 gr HS-6
Federal 12S4
1 1/4 oz lead
fold crimp

1230 fps
9,100 psi

You could swap the CCI209M for a Federal 209A, or Winchester 209. What primers do you have? Universal is listed as about the same velocity.

In the Lyman manual, I don't see the load you listed at 35 grains. Here is what I see for Universal clays.

Federal FB
Winchester 209
31.5 gr Universal
Winchester AA12F114
525gr sabot slug
fold crimp

1460 fps
10,700 psi

I would not substitute the Win 209, but you could use a Federal 12S4.

[Ginsing]

I have winchester and federal 209a primers. I will be using federal hunting hulls yes with fiber base wads.
As for the data I got it from this site from the thread " official lyman 525 load data" that is where it states the 35 gr load. To be honest it seemed like an awful lot of universal.
I don't own the lyman manual, I am waiting on it to arrive by mail. 31.5 gr seems more reasonable for sure.
I have been getting all my load data so far from powder manufacture websites but it is very limited.
I am looking forward to receiving my manual.
Megasupermagnum just to confirm that the load data you just quoted is directly from the lyman manual?
I will also try some loads with hs-6 as well. It has worked well for me for buckshot and Lee 1oz slug do far.
Thanks a lot everyone, shotgun loading is a very new adventure for me. A different animal than metallic cartridge loading for sure

[Blood Trail]

What you'll encounter is that there's not a lot of data for us. 'Us' meaning slug reloaders. I've gotten to where I'm at by studying the works of modern slug "pioneers" on this site like Uncle D, Biker Beans, Longbow, Huble, Hogtamer, etc.

Slugs generally generate less pressure than shot, if all other things are equal, so I always keep that in mind. I start my loads my using as close as I can to published shot data that matches my slugs, etc (I assume like everyone else).

The reason I would use HS-6 first is the longer, slower pressure curve when moving heavy projectiles.


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[Hogtamer]

page 381... 2 3/4" Fed. Plastic hunting cases w/paper basewad Lyman 5th edition. Click photo to enlarge.

[megasupermagnum]

Yep, both loads I posted are from the Lyman manual, 5th edition.

[Blood Trail]

Wonder what the older manuals lists as far as different powders? I'll check this evening.


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[Ginsing]

If it isn't too much trouble can one of you fellows copy the 525 data for all hulls listed?
I have a few gold medal hulls and some Remington hulls I might want to try.
Thanks

[Hogtamer]

fed gold medal


remington


Win.


all 2 3/4"

[longbow]

I am surprised to see Unique listed there with Win. hulls and also surprised to see the pressure so high under a 525 gr. slug. Ross Seyfreid used 21.5 grs. Unique under a 750 gr. Paradox slug in his Paradox gun. Not sure what hull offhand but looking at 10,500 PSI for 22.5 grs. makes me wonder what pressure he was getting.

Also surprised that Unique is only listed for Winchester hulls. I wish they would pick a powder and slug/shot charge and test in all common hulls adjusting powder and primer to get safe pressure and publish that!

Lyman seems to jump around a lot with load data... what is an isn't tested. There are lots of combinations to be sure and it all costs money to test but it would be very helpful to have that info.

Longbow