Lead for the 25-35

[beefyz]

Outpost. yes, i will. Going out of state for awhile but when i get these tested i will post results using this thread.
From the woods.... hahahah, he's my source for my boolits !!!!!!

[FromTheWoods]

That's good news. Daniel is a fine man.

And, since I'm considering changing my .25-35 load, you'd be a great help if you would try H4895 and Reloader 7 in your testing. I could sit on the porch and enjoy iced lemonade while waiting for your updates!

[beefyz]

Hi to all. Back from my out of state jaunt and from the range with some results. Some pertinent background. Gun is appx 2007/’08 Win 94 in 25-35 with 1:8 twist, 20” barrel. I wasn’t satisfied with the 117gr jacketed Hornadys being the only bullet readily available, I wanted to shoot lead, even though these can be pretty hard to find unless you’re casting your own, which I don’t. Despite the fact that from many sources lead is rather difficult in the 1:8 twist, I wanted to find out the hard way.
Source of boolits- The 117 jacketed Hornadys, for comparison. At appx $22-25/box, not exactly a plinking bullet. For lead, The Bullshop has a wide assortment and Danny is a good guy to talk too. His article on using Pb vs GC in the same grainage & obtaining different results was interesting. I used his 87,100,& 120 FNs all available w&wo checks. Hornady’s 117s are going for $23, their new 110gr FTXs @ $24. A factory box of the new FTXs went for $30 at a recent show and didn’t shoot well at all. As usual, if you’re set up already to do so, casting your own boolits is the BIGGEST money saver.
Source of data- Oldest data came from The Complete Guide to Handloading, just to give me a reference for certain powders. Most data obtained from “Load Data” site of which I’m a member. Issues referenced included HL 116, 204, 239, & 296. Venturino book “Leverguns of the old west”. Lee & Hogdon book & annuals. Articles by Venturino, Haviland, Simpson, & Quinn in various gun magazines. Another source I became aware of is a Paco Kelly book “Lever & Handguns” ($20) which has a section devoted to the 25-35. He may have additional info on loads. His earlier book “An American Heritage/Leverguns “ is available for $159, content unknown. Lacking exact data on some loads I extrapolated as best I could based on my 40 yrs of reloading and loads never exceeding the published data on similar loads.
Goal- To shoot LEAD. My hunting days are over. I didn’t want to spend $45+ on old factory ammo, if you can find them, to put holes in paper. The new Hornady 110s are not that reasonable either. I did not want to shoot the 60 & 75 gr Jacketed bullets, if you can still find them, at paper. I didn’t want full powerhouse loads nor mouse fart loads seeking instead light/moderate loads somewhere between the roughly 1,400-1,600 fps published and at a reasonable cost to reload. I’m presently reloading a box/20 for appx $6. Sorry, no chrono. Results based on published data where applicable .
Results – As always, this is FYI only. This is what I found to shoot well in my rifle. Your results may be different. Shoot at your own risk ! Use as a guideline to start as I did and watching for signs of problems.
Best results were obtained using SR 4759, not made anymore, but I have 4lbs of it; @9gr w/87gr PB w/WLR, @11 w/100 GC w/WLR, @12 w/120 GC w/WLR.
Next best was with IMR 4227, @ 10.5 gr w/ 87gr PB or GC, and 10.5 gr w/ 100gr PB, Both w/ WLR.
Accurate 5744 was good @10gr w/100gr PB & GC w/ WLR.
Titegroup @ 6-6.5 gr w/87gr PB & GC w/WLR.
Alliant 2400 @ 10gr w/87 gr GC w/WLR.
Alliant Unique @ 8.6 w/100gr. PB & GC w/WLR.
Once my windage & elevation on the factory open sights was adjusted, all these loads shot to point of aim giving roughly 1-3” grps @ 50 yds. Another powder suggested for use was Trail Boss. Although using this in 32-20 & .30-30 “light” loads, published loads in the 25-35 were mouse-fart or shot 8-10” low to point. The Hodgdon max load of 8gr was no better.
I also tested some loads using the Hornady 117gr jacketed roundnose for comparison. Existing published loads were full powered & spot on & included;
Benchmark @ 19.5 or 20gr, w/H117gr w/R 9 ½ P & Varget @ 20-21 w/H117gr w/R 9 ½ P .
Other loads I’m working on from published data are IMR 3031 @ 18.1 w/120gr GC w/R 9 ½ P, & BL-C2 @ 22gr w/100gr GC w/ R 9 ½ P. I’m trying to develop a “light’ load from Hodgdon using H 4895 @ 60% and working up; H4895 @ 17.5 w/100 PB w/R 9 ½ P shows promise but still has to be tweaked. I ran out of the 100GC and want to try this also.
Thanks to all for comments, help, and/or advice. Just trying to give back a little after other guys have helped me on this site before. If you’re interested in a challenge as I was, this may give you a place to start.

[Outpost75]

Thanks for the update. Please post some pics of your better targets with load data on them if you have a chance.

[beefyz]

HI all. Had another GOOD testing day. Tried to upload the photo, and its a no go. Read the "How to upload photo" and that didn't help. Any suggestions? Would love to show the photo. Did additional loads....

[beefyz]

Don't understand what happened above... click image, and you should be able to go back and forth to see better. Sorry, best i was able to do....

Target was at 50 yds. Open factory sights. All boolits are from Bullshop. Brass, Winchester, .30-30s resized to 25-35.
Orange tags - SR 4759 @ 10 gr w/87 PB. WLR. I always seem to "pull" one off.
Green tags - Titegroup @ 7 w/100 PB .WLR. Again, pulled one.
Orange tags with slashes - Titegroup @ 7 w/87 PB. WLR. Ditto
Pink tags - 2400 @ 12 w/125 GC. WLR.
Yellow tags - BL-C2 @ 23 w/ 100GC . Rem 9 1/2 P. NOTE- 4 Above were light to moderate loads. This was pretty close to a factory load.
Green tags with slashes - H4895 @ 17.5 w/100 GC. Rem 9 1/2 P. Developed load using Hodgdon's 60% formula, based upon similar Load data loadings, should be around 1,800fps. Not a plinker but not unpleasant to shoot. Give it a bit more elevation and .....

Judging by some of the pictures Venturino posted in his book and the fact that this was with lead that wasn't supposed to work as well as others, I don't think i've done too bad with these 65 yr old eyes.

[wwmartin]

Interesting data.
I'm finishing up a #5 rolling block in 25-35 with a 32" / 9.5 twist barrel. Breakin load is 23gr of 30-31 and the Hornady 117.
It is good to find data for cast lead. I have several molds in 25 caliber that were bought when I was playing with a Marlin 1893 in 25-36M and the 25-20. I'm ancious to see how the 25-35 compares with the Marlin 25-36 with a 1:9 twist. It didn't like lead.

Bill

[beefyz]

If you're interested, I found some printed data from "Load Data".
Using the Lyman cast 111, #257325, w/IMR 3031 @ 18gr for 1,801
@ 19gr for 1,873
Hornady 117 RNSP w/IMR 3031 @ 22gr for 2,062
@ 23gr for 2,181
@ 25gr for 2,388

I also was testing the Bullshop 125GC w/3031 @ 18.1 and got 3" groups @ 50 yds, just a bit larger than my H4895 results above. Its a bit "heavy" for me and not what i was after.
Yes, that 1:8 seems to cause headaches for many using lead. On the other hand , didn't have a bad load with the Hornady 117s.
How did you manage to find brass for 25-36? Hear its even harder to find than the 25-35, although these past few months Hornady & Winchester( after W telling me they would not be making any more) did make a run of them. I got some of that but found i can resize .30-30 pretty easy, which i did to use in my test loads.