Hunting with the 45 ACP, 45 Super Round

[wildchild2010]

Anyone use the 45 Super or 45 ACP as their main handgun for hunting, Deer, Black bear and small game, if so what bullets are you using. I been reading folks have been having good luck with the Cast Performance .452 WFNGC in both the 45 ACP and 45 Super. Just want something in a Semi Handgun over a revolver.

[Tatume]

Where I live (Virginia) the 45 ACP is considered illegal for big game. Specifically, the law requires 350 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Granted, most handloaders can achieve that, and some factory ammo does too, but the majority of game wardens are poorly informed on such matters.

A good cast bullet of 250 grains or so driven to 800 fps will probably make a good deer and hog load, within the range limitations of the M1911 handgun. Personally, I would consider 50 yards to be the maximum range for the gun. You might have a bit of a challenge getting the WFN profile to feed, but of course, that's half the fun.

[jonp]

I have read of a few guys that use 45ACP for deer and bear but have always considered this marginal at best. I really don't have much to base my belief on, however other than velocity and load data for the 45ACP. I wonder if you could get the velocity you need with cast to make it adequate?

Tatume: do you think 800fps with this round would suffice with a cast? What BHN would you suggest

[wildchild2010]

Where I live (Virginia) the 45 ACP is considered illegal for big game. Specifically, the law requires 350 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Granted, most handloaders can achieve that, and some factory ammo does too, but the majority of game wardens are poorly informed on such matters.

That is insane you can't use a 45 ACP to hunt with, it will kill big game dead with the right bullet and shot placement.

A good cast bullet of 250 grains or so driven to 800 fps will probably make a good deer and hog load, within the range limitations of the M1911 handgun. Personally, I would consider 50 yards to be the maximum range for the gun. You might have a bit of a challenge getting the WFN profile to feed, but of course, that's half the fun.

The CP 265gr is a nice looking bullet, the way it is designed it looks like it will feed OK. You don't need 2000 fps in a handgun to kill wild game.





edit, added picture

[dakotashooter2]

So a 45 ACP is adequate to kill a 200 lb man but not a 200 lb deer. Original 45 colt loads had very similar energy to modern 45 ACP loads. I have shot many deer with 210gr. 41 mag loads at a little over 1100 fps and dropped most on the spot. I have also put down a few with the moderate 357 loads and one with a 41 special load. Unfortunately sometimes the G&F departments look at the lowest possible denominator when deciding which load is adequate and which is not.

[Shiloh]

.45 ACP is plenty for deer. At the same close ranges as for bad guys.
Saw a nice doe taken in Colorado years ago with .45 ACP. Probably illegal.

Shiloh

[wildchild2010]

Lone Wolf Distributor makes a G21 45 ACP 9" long barrel, I think that will be great for hunting.

[otter5555]

Anyone use the 45 Super or 45 ACP as their main handgun for hunting, Deer, Black bear and small game, if so what bullets are you using. I been reading folks have been having good luck with the Cast Performance .452 WFNGC in both the 45 ACP and 45 Super. Just want something in a Semi Handgun over a revolver.

i have killed 8 whitetail with a 1911 in 45 acp.
i limit my shots to 30 yds and always make head shots.
they drop like a stone.
i use my normal target load ....200 gr homecast rn, 3 gr bullseye. light spring

almost no recoil, superbly accurate

[dougader]

45 Super 265 WFN @ 1000 fps is a great deer load imo. My gun is a G21sf with a 6" 4-port Lone Wolf aftermarket barrel.

[DougGuy]

Where I live (Virginia) the 45 ACP is considered illegal for big game. Specifically, the law requires 350 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Granted, most handloaders can achieve that, and some factory ammo does too, but the majority of game wardens are poorly informed on such matters.

A good cast bullet of 250 grains or so driven to 800 fps will probably make a good deer and hog load, within the range limitations of the M1911 handgun. Personally, I would consider 50 yards to be the maximum range for the gun. You might have a bit of a challenge getting the WFN profile to feed, but of course, that's half the fun.

I hunted in Virginia for many years and always thought the .45 auto was plenty legal in counties that a handgun was legal to hunt with. Almost all 230gr factory loads produce over 350ftlbs in a 5" barrel. The +P loads would be plenty good for deer or black bear. At least the ones we have here in VA/NC.

http://www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php

[Airman Basic]

Back in the 70's, used a 250 grain Keith bullet with too much Blue Dot in a Series 70 Gold Cup. Killed everything I shot with it, mostly whitetail. Accurate as any I shot in that gun.

[Tatume]

I have read of a few guys that use 45ACP for deer and bear but have always considered this marginal at best. I really don't have much to base my belief on, however other than velocity and load data for the 45ACP. I wonder if you could get the velocity you need with cast to make it adequate?

Tatume: do you think 800fps with this round would suffice with a cast? What BHN would you suggest

Brian Pearce claims to have killed a couple of elk with 255 grain Keith bullets at 800 fps. They were perfect, broadside shots, and gave complete penetration.

Shooting treed black bears at 30 feet with a 45 ACP pistol might be okay. I wouldn't do it.

For those who took me to task over Virginia law requiring 350 foot pounds of energy to hunt deer: 1) I didn't write the law, and 2) I don't enforce the law. I know some factory ammo exceeds 350 foot pounds, and said so. I've also talked to a lot of game wardens, and they say they would write the ticket and let the judge sort it out. Personally, I don't like being hauled into court.

Really good hunters who will get close to an animal before taking a shot can get away with using a low-powered cartridge. My guess is that people who ask "is so-and-so cartridge good enough for deer" aren't those good hunters. I'm not even going to respond to the claim that "good enough for self-defense is good enough for deer."

My recommendation to most people is, don't use a handgun. If someone has to ask me what handgun to use, that person probably doesn't have enough experience to get the job done without wounding game animals.

My second recommendation is to get a 44 Magnum revolver, load cartridges to 1100 fps, and practice until you can hit a soup can all day long at 50 yards. Then don't take any shots over 50 yards.

Anybody who can shoot a handgun consistently at 100 yards isn't going to ask me what handgun to use, he already knows.

Take care, Tom

[captaint]

In Penn's Woods, there will be no semi auto firearms used for "big game" other than semi auto shotguns and only in the special regs areas. Special regs means near the largest cities and suburbs. That's where the archery folks kill the biggest, best deer in the state. Every year.
Mike

[wildchild2010]

45 Super 265 WFN @ 1000 fps is a great deer load imo. My gun is a G21sf with a 6" 4-port Lone Wolf aftermarket barrel.

Are you using the cast performance 265gf bullets, what kind of range are you hunting with the 45 Super?

Thanks

[wildchild2010]

i have killed 8 whitetail with a 1911 in 45 acp.
i limit my shots to 30 yds and always make head shots.
they drop like a stone.
i use my normal target load ....200 gr homecast rn, 3 gr bullseye. light spring

almost no recoil, superbly accurate

That is some good shooting there sir, what is the fps is your load?

Thanks

[DougGuy]

tatume, I wasn't necessarily "taking you to task" over the comments about the minimum muzzle energy law, I was just mentioning that almost all of the factory ammo for that caliber exceeds the minimum requirement.

I used to shoot pins with the 255gr Keith type SWC in a Para, I don't recall the powder but they sure would clear a table in a hurry, it would launch pins like you hit them with a baseball bat. THAT would have made an awesome deer or black bear load!

[gray wolf]

Good enough to kill a human ?? How many humans can run 100 yards with half there organs looking like Jello ?
30 yard head shots and they drop like a stone, well sure they do. 30 yard head shots with a 22LR will drop em like a stone also.
A 255 grain 45ACP at 800 FPS ?? Again, well sure it will at the proper range.
The 45 colt standard load was about 900 FPS with a 250/255 grain bullet.
What are we saying here ? that a 45 ACP will kill a Deer ? sure it will.
Better question ? simply asked, will a 45 ACP kill a deer, simple answer, yes.
would I hunt Deer or bear with a 45 ACP ? no I would not.
But other people do it!! they kill deer with it, Sorry I am not other people.
So do you think it's wrong for other folks to hunt with a 45 ACP ? NO, other people can and will do what they choose to do, if it works fine, I just think there are better options.

[Reloder28]

45 Super is my choice for hunting when I pack my 1911. I run 200 RNFP lead cast @ 1285 fps.

[shoot-n-lead]

We use the Lee 255 WFN loaded to 950fps in the 1911 45acp...works like a champ out to 50yds.

Don't knock it till ya try it.

[Larry Gibson]

I have hunted deer and bear with the 45 ACP. Had a rifle but took the shot with the handgun (M1911 and a Commander once). I used the Speer 200 gr JHP (original FAT bullet) over 7.5 gr Unique for 1000+ fps except on 1 bear I used the Hornady 185 JHP over the same load. Within 50 yards I never had a problem with them. Terminal results were very similar to using a hard cast 240 - 260 SWC at 850 - 1050 fps out of the 44 SPL, the 45 AR or the 45 Colt. I have also killed a lot of small game with the 45 ACP; coyotes, badgers, squirrels, grouse, rabbits, rock cucks, rattlesnakes, etc. and have not found the cartridge or the M1911 lacking. I'd have to guess most of those were shot with my practice load of a 190 - 205 gr cast SWC over 5 gr BE for 875 fps or so. Have to admit to numerous and very effective 50 - 100 yard shots with that load on rabbits and rock chucks with a very accurate IPSC race M1911 with 5 1/2" Wilson barrel.

I also put down a lot of injured deer, elk and some domestic stock as an LEO. I was able to many times pick and choose the weapon and bullet used along with the shot. I found the heavier cast bullets in the 45 ACP out of the M1911 gave no better terminal results than the better 185 - 200 gr bullets on deer. A lot of credence is given to a bullets ability to "penetrate" but on a deer or the average BB there really isn't a lot to penetrate to the heart area on most all side or raking shots. I found on deer, goats and sheep that almost any handgun ammunition with 850 fps out of 4"+ barrels used for LEO work (except the lightest JHPS and specialty exploding bullets) would many times give through and through penetration even with one leg hit. I did not see any real increase in terminal effectiveness with any bullet or cartridge until muzzle velocities went above 1200 fps. A marked increase in terminal effectiveness over any handgun bullet was seen with quality expanding bullets at 1350 - 1450 fps out of the 357, 41 and 44 Magnums.

The OP didn't ask if it was legal to hunt with the 45 ACP so I left that issue out. He asked "anyone use" the 45 ACP to hunt deer and I have. Keep in mid all of my shots with the 45 ACP were under 50 yards with most in the 15 - 25 yards range. If I was hunting back east, down south or down Texas way where the shots can be within the 50 yards I'd have no qualms using the 45 ACP if I wanted to. I doubt I would use the heavier cast bullets though. I have a very fine single cavity 452490 that makes an excellent 250 gr cast SWC. I have HP'd it to 230 gr and it performed every bit as good as any other bullet. I should sent it out for a large "Devastator" type HP mod and then it would be an excellent performer within my 50 yard limit when cast of 30-1 alloy and pushed at 900 - 950 fps (+P) out of a 5" M1911.

Larry Gibson