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Thread: Magnum handgun powder choices

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Magnum handgun powder choices

    Hello,
    I am searching for a suitable powder to replace H-110 as my primary magnum handgun powder for 357 Magnum. I am concerned about flame cutting, and potential for failure to light at low temperatures. does anyone have first hand experience with H-110 failing to light (or burning inconsistently) at low ambient temperatures?

    I have had good accuracy and velocity results with h-110, including 1.5 inch groups at 25 yards with my 4 inch 686. my primary goal with a different powder would be to maintain accuracy, while secondary goals include avoiding flame cutting, reliable ignition, and possible use of standard pistol primers, as opposed to magnum primers. Im willing to sacrifice a little bit of velocity to achieve these goals.

    My first natural idea was to try out 2400, because it seems to be the traditional choice for magnum handgun loads, has a reputation for good accuracy, and seems to fit my ticket perfectly. however, after 6 months of trying to locate even a single grain of 2400, I have come up empty handed.

    as a result, I took a look through my Lyman manual, and came up with this list of powders that give similar charge weights and muzzle velocities to 2400.

    AA#5
    IMR-4227
    Power Pistol
    AA#9
    Enforcer
    N-110

    Does anyone have experience with these powders in magnum cartridges? how was accuracy? did you use magnum primers? did you get advertised muzzle velocities from your manual of choice? what where your velocities, from what firearm?

    Im looking to use lyman 358156, 358429, 125gr xpt, and the 158gr xtp.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master



    TNsailorman's Avatar
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    The only powders I have used in my magnums has been H-110, 2400 and on occasion 4756(in my .357 magnum). I hunted deer with my .41 Magnum but never below 25 degrees and I have not noticed any problems at that temperature. My hunting days are all but over now because of age. The only real problem I have ever had with flame cutting was about 15 years ago I decided I needed another .357 magnum and bought a almost pristine S&W Model 13 and a box I Remington factory 125 grain +P jhp ammo to try it out. I shot all 50 rounds in one session and loved the revolver and the accuracy. When I got home and started to clean the revolver, I noticed flame cutting that was not there before and I mean some really noticeable flame cutting on the top strap between the cylinder and the barrel. I wrote Remington about it asking about the powder they used in that load but I never got an answer back. My grandson has the revolver now and he loves it. my experience anyway, james

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I just did some accuracy testing (w/ chrono #'s) in my 77/44 rifle using H110, Blue Dot, and IMR4227. I don't have any experience with the other powders in your list, but I did find that maximum IMR4227 loads for my 265gr JSP's were ~1475 fps vs ~1550 fps for H110 & Blue Dot. Unfortunately, with the 4227 having a burn rate on the slow side, I think it will be a distant second compared to the more optimum H110/2400/Blue Dot velocities when shot from handgun barrels.

    I have good accuracy results with Blue Dot in other loadings, might that be an option where you're at?
    Last edited by Kestrel4k; 07-20-2017 at 06:02 PM.

  4. #4
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    There are two apex magnum powders
    110/296 and 300
    after that
    4227
    Lil' Gun
    2400
    AA#9
    Blue Dot
    and a few others.
    2400 is what I like and as much juice as I need.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    I use 4227 and lil gun. If you are worried about damage from h110 then reading about lil gun will keep you up all night worrying about you forcing cone and top strap. 4227 is good stuff and I think it is good to go with standard primers.you might double check me on that though.

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold
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    you all arent going to believe this, but just today I found two pounds of 2400. That being said, I will likely still do a little bit of experimenting with blue dot, 4227, and AA#9. Thanks to everyone for the advice! thanks Kestrel and Jmort for bringing blue dot to my attention.

    I posed this question to Lyman customer service a while back, and may make a separate post for it in a while, but in the mean time..

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________
    Hello,
    I have a few questions about the use of magnum primers in the load data for 357 magnum in my 49th edition Lyman manual.

    In this data, only magnum primers are used. I was surprised to see that the 357 data doesn't feature any non-magnum primers. The manual calls for the use of magnum primers, even for fast burning powders, such as unique and bullseye. I had always been under the impression that standard pistol primers could be used for such faster powders, while magnum primers were required for slow powders like H-110 that are more difficult to ignite.

    I recognize that magnum primers are rated for higher pressures than standard primers. I wondered if the exclusive use of magnum primers, even for fast powders, was needed to handle the pressure. I checked the 44 magnum data from the same manual, and found that only very slow powders like H-110 were listed as using magnum primers, while faster powders such as bullseye, unique, and even 2400 were listed with standard pistol primers. Most of these loads show max pressures in the neighborhood of 40,000 cup, just like the 357 loads that stipulate magnum primers.

    So, for instance, why does a load of 2400 or unique in 44 mag not require a magnum primer, while a load of 2400 or unique in 357 does?

    Also, why is the manual partial to CCI standard and mag primers for the 357 and 44? I know the CCIs are said to be harder than others.. Are they more consistent? Do they offer better ignition?

    Thanks for taking the time to read my question! Have a nice day!
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________

    Does anyone have any ideas on this? thanks!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master



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    Checkout the newer powder: Longshot. It is for full-power loads.
    Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA-Life, ARTCA, American Legion, & the South Cuyahoga Gun Club.

    Caveat Emptor: Do not trust Cavery Grips/American Gripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He will rip you off.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    If I were concerned about low temperature ignition, I'd work all my loads up with magnum primers.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    Alliant 300 MP deserves very serious consideration for magnum loads.
    An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life. "Inside me two wolves fight," he told the boy.
    "One is evil - he is anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies, false pride, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, generosity, truth and faith. The same fight is inside you - and every other person, too."
    The grandson thought for a minute and asked,"Which wolf will win?"
    The old Cherokee replied, "The one you feed."

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    The Speer reloading Handbook #14 recommends standard primers for all its 357 Magnum loads, except for 296, h110, HS-6 and HS-7 (for those, magnum primers), for bullets of 158 grains and lower. For heavier bullets, there are a couple of other powders where they recommend magnum primers.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    # 9 is between the two. (2400 & H110)

    It would be & is my choice, if I was to do other than the other two. But, who the heck am I?.
    No one..LOL


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  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
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    Ill do some reading on Longshot and 300MP. Hick, thanks for the info from your speer manual. I left a voicemail with a technician at Lyman today about the primer question. this method has worked for me in the past, as they do seem to return calls. ill keep you all posted if they do.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    does anyone have first hand experience with H-110 failing to light (or burning inconsistently) at low ambient temperatures
    I live and hunt in Minnesota so low temps are the norm in Nov. I have never had an issue with H110 failing to light. I understand 4227 is temp sensitive tho, and have used lil gun with success despite the dire predictions of erosion. If you aren't bent on max velocity, HS-6 will offer plenty of oomph with a little less kick.
    Last edited by str8wal; 07-24-2017 at 10:31 AM.

  14. #14
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    I bought a couple of 4lb jugs of Ramshot enforcer.. I used it in place of my goto powder 2400 in my 44 mag stuff cuz 2400 has been unobtainable. I have burned through about 6 lbs of it and find it to be reliable and repeatable, but has more felt recoil then 2400.

    Marko
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  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazoo View Post
    If I were concerned about low temperature ignition, I'd work all my loads up with magnum primers.
    If you're using H110 then you should already be using them. I've never heard of flame cutting issues H110. It's been around a very long time and is consistently the top performer. I have a hunting load worked up for my 1894C and it's seen some cold temps. Never an issue lighting off. Stay away from Lil'Gun if you're worried about flame cutting.

    There are many other powders that come close. The only one I would recommend is 2400. It won't give you top performance but it's very versatile. You can down load it unlike H110. Keep the pressure up w/ H110 and you won't have any issues.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    I've been using 4227 with standard primers and have been very satisfied so far.

  17. #17
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    H110 / ww296 became my powder for magnum loads many years ago and it works well.

    As for flame cutting, I'm not sure it's a huge problem specifically with H110. Ball powders do have a reputation for flame cutting but I'm not sure it's extreme. Other powders can be used in magnum loads but generally with some reduction in performance. The OP has said he is willing to accept those losses but it begs the question, "what are you trying to accomplish?"
    To get any projectile to magnum velocities you're going to pay a price. It take a lot of pressure to achieve that performance.

    There's a reason those loads are classified as "Magnums". If your goal is to get the most energy safely possible out of a particular 357 magnum cartridge, then H110 is probably the way to go. There are other powders that will also get you in that territory but do you need to be in that territory in the first place?


    Or, you can take advantage of the magnum revolver's strength and load something below full magnum pressures. If those loads are beyond safe 38 Special +P ranges, please use magnum casings so they will not accidentally find their way into a 38 Special chamber. A S&W 686 (L-frame) will handle .357 mag loads and hold up well but why live at the maximum limit all of the time?

    There's just no need to shoot magnum loads every time you pull the trigger.

    I shoot FAR more 38 Special rounds than .357 mag rounds.

    As for reliability, I've never had a problem with H110 working. You should be using magnum primers with H110 powder.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 07-24-2017 at 09:10 AM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy gundownunder's Avatar
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    I load 357 magnum loads for a Marlin cowboy, for use in lever action silhouette.
    I started with CCI small rifle primers 10 years ago and never found a reason to change.
    I first used 2400 powder, It produced about 1700 FPS and 1.5" 5 shot groups at 50, with a 175 grain cast bullet.
    Then, when 2400 got to be like hens teeth over here, I switched to ADI 2205, same as your 4227. At the same time I also went from a 175gr to a 180gr cast bullet. Groups stayed about the same. I found that my velocity dropped a considerable amount.
    Then I got a can of Lil'gun. The groups were a little better, velocity was even better than 2400, but after 10 shots you could fry eggs on the barrel, which I didn't like.
    I recently got a can of WW296. The LGS didn't have small pistol magnum primers, and every piece of literature and reload data I have ever read says you need those. They had small rifle magnum primers so I grabbed a pack of them instead, but they were way too hard and wouldn't go off in my rifle. Just for curiosity I loaded up a few with my regular CCI small rifle primers and headed to the range. I took a cleaning rod along so I could push the bullets back out of the barrel if needed. They went off perfectly well.
    I am now at 13.8gr of 296 and a small rifle primer and get 5 shot groups of just over 1 inch, and get more velocity than I ever had before, though I haven't chronied them yet. I'm wondering whether I still need to tweak this load further as I am lead to believe that 296 performs best at 100% loading density, but that has me a little concerned because by the look of it I will need about 15 grains to achieve 100%, but that is going way above the book. I guess I can try it little by little and see what happens with regard to pressure and accuracy.
    For those who are interested my bullet of choice is Accurate's 36-175-B, which casts at 180 grains with COWW + 2% tin. That bullet and the 2400 load make for some fun shooting in a Ruger security six, though I didn't make a habit of it as wrist fatigue doesn't take long.
    Last edited by gundownunder; 07-24-2017 at 07:24 PM.
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Aliant powers don't suggest using anything but std primers for 2400 ,unique etc.

  20. #20
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    I still say you should try some of that Ramshot Enforcer... it seems to be on the shelf these days, and runs good in mag velocity... they say it runs good in all mag types, but I only use in 44 mag full house.. it even cycles my Ruger 44 Carbine just fine.
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check