I do get pressure signs with a 158 Hard Cast boolit over 14.5 of 2400 in my Ruger 6.5" SS Blackhawk.
But not in my 5" S&W 27 or Marlin 1894 Rifle.
I dropped back to 13.5 in the Ruger and it works great.
I do get pressure signs with a 158 Hard Cast boolit over 14.5 of 2400 in my Ruger 6.5" SS Blackhawk.
But not in my 5" S&W 27 or Marlin 1894 Rifle.
I dropped back to 13.5 in the Ruger and it works great.
13.5 grs 2400 with 358156 GC or H&G 51.
13.5 2400 works for me .it was also Mr Keith's load!
I was doing a little testing with 2400 and the mihec 359-640 hp bullet. The 359-640 mold casts a 158gr hp and a 170gr fn bullet. The bullets were cast from range scrap (8bhn/9bhn) and then pc'd and sized to .358".
[IMG][/IMG]
In the initial testing I only ran 10-shot strings over a chronograph using a 2 1/2", 4", 6", 8" & 10" bbl'd firearms. I seated the bullets in the bottom crimp groove and used 14.7gr of 2400 for the load.
2 1/2" bbl/1197fps
4" bbl/1257fps
6" bbl/1343fps
8" bbl/1406fps
10" bbl/1610fps
There was no signs of pressure in any of the 4 firearms used for the testing (3 revolvers and a tc contender). While 14.7gr of 2400 is a hot load it's comparable to the 14.5gr/358156 load. The mihec 359-640 bullet is .340" long to the lower crimp groove. The lyman 358156 is .375" to the top crimp groove.
14.0gr's 2400 and 358156 have been my standard load in my Ruger BH for years. I have gone up to 15gr's but after 14gr's I think all you are getting is more noise and recoil.
We go through life trying to make the best decisions we can based on the best infomation we can find, that turns out to be wrong.
That's the same boolit I'm working with, Forrest. I've never gone past 14 grains with cast and mag primer...that load does 1200 from my 5" 686. For comparison 18 grains of 300 mp will push it to 1250.
I have shot literally thousands and thousands of 358156 cast bulets . I had Tom @ Accurate molds make 2 / 4 cavity molds for me w/o the gas check . One of my std loads is Skeeter Skeltons recommendation , 13.5grs of 2400 . Yrs ago when I didn't have hardly any 357 cases I did what skeeter told , used 38 special cases and crimped the bullet in the lower crimp groove . I feel that every powder has a sweet spot and I think 13.5grs of 2400 is a good sweet spot . Regards, Paul
Have you ever tested .357 2400 loads with both standard and mag primers? I used a mag primers for years but tryed standard primers after thy started listing them in the load manuals. I have shot mosty in warm weather and can't tell any difference. Would mag primers work better in colder weather or would it matter?
We go through life trying to make the best decisions we can based on the best infomation we can find, that turns out to be wrong.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Thank you Larry, for years we were led to believe that magnum primers and 2400 were a “no no.” I was always skeptical since magnum pistol primers should only have harder primer cups compared to standard to avoid piercing primers at higher pressures?
Don't magnum primers generate more flame, too? It sure seems they do. I recently did a comparison of identical loads of 2400 in 357 using 158s and found that the powder burned more completely using magnum and about 25-50FPS increase in velocity was observed. Today I ran a batch of 2400 with the 358 hammer boolit hp from 12-13.5 grains in my model 19 4". Used Fed 100 primers. Observed 1250 at 13.5. Sunny day so I don't always get the best readings. Under a shade tree is best or overcast day. Great load except there is evident unburnt powder.
I would not hesitate to use that 170 gr for Whitetail within 75 yds. You’ll be enjoying your venison during the cold months.
Just did some gel testing on this bullet. Mind your alloys. I was using 16:1 and observed considerable fragmentation with 13.5 grains of 2400 pushing the large HP version which weighs 158 checked and lubed. Around 1200 FPS from my 4" model 19. And about the most recoil that I really want to deal with. If I were to go more powerful I would want my heavier 686.
The bullet sailed right through 14" of block and definitely opened up. But since it went through I was unable to recover the expanded bullet. I am going to retest this with a softer alloy, perhaps a smaller hollowpoint. I read of strengthing the alloy with copper in the tin-lead alloy. Going to try that.
I use the 359-640, 12 grains of 2400 getting just at 1500 out of a 77/357 and yes, it works very good on deer.
“Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.”
― Mark Twain
W8SOB
Yes, magnum primers are supposed to have more flame, so to speak. In a revolver chamber with its long throat (essentially free-bore) and the barrel cylinder/gap the time/pressure curve will be a bit different from that of the same load fired in a closed breach barrel such as a single shot pistol or a rifle. In the revolver chamber the rise to peak pressure will be slower than in the closed breach system and a drop in pressure when the bullet passes the barrel/cylinder gap will occur that does not occur in the closed breach system. Bottom line the measured psi in a closed breach system will be slightly higher than the same load in a revolver.
In the revolver, because of the above, the longer flame of the magnum primer give better initial ignition and many times a seemingly cleaner burn. That can also give a slight increase in velocity due to the cleaner burn, especially when the bullet is past the barrel/cylinder gap, but doesn't necessarily mean the pressure is higher. It just means the time pressure curve is slightly different with the magnum vs the standard primer.
As I've noted in pressure testing the 357 and 44 magnums with the slower burning powders there most often isn't a demonstrable difference between the same load with standard vs magnum primers of the same make. You can usually find a wider discrepancy in pressure by using the standard primer of one make comparing it to a magnum primer of another make. Note also that Winchester LPs are made for standard and magnum loads. Compare them in a load of 2400 powder in either cartridge against CCI 350s and you won't see much difference.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
13.5 grains of 2400 pushing 359 Hammer MP-Molds bullet with small hollowpoint cast of 91-6-3 pb-sn-sb (weight 162 grains checked and lubed). Tested in FBI spec bb calibrated gelatin with 4 layers of denim:
1250 FPS from 4" S&W M19: .635" expansion, 16" penetration, 99% weight retention
1600 FPS from Marlin 1894c: .45" expansion, 16-8" penetration, 55% weight retention (of the recovered fragments).
Lesson: more velocity can reduce performance. Secondary lesson: the teachers of old were right about a great many things.
My S&W 686 seems to shoot the 357446 bullet better than all others and over 13.5 grains 2400 it is a dandy. However I'll be 77 in10 more days and have arthritis in my hands that hurt, the same bullet over 6 grains Unique is just a dandy and with careful shot placement will probably kill all that I need to kill.
Rex, I knew somebody had a revolver that liked that bullet. I had the mould a few years back and tried my best to get it to work in my Model’s 19; 686; and 27 without success.
txbirdman,
I have tried the 358429 and 358477 but neither shoot as well for me. My Smith has really tight throats and I have to size to .357 to fit the throats. My mould is an old Ideal 2 hole and is picky as the devil about temperature to get the shoulders all square.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |