Salvation

[Boaz]

ok , in my own strange and special redneck way I will try and encapsulate , I will attempt to simply explain 'Salvation" . There are many aspects to salvation , I'm going to hit the high points as I only type with one finger and frankly am not too smart. The verse that could be used is unlimited...it could be massive .

Why do we need salvation ? The reason is that Adam and Eve sinned against GOD . They were separated from personal and physical contact by their sin and no longer being on a 'physical' level with him . But GOD still loved them...his creations . This is where the need for salvation originated .

I hope you comment if you believe me to be right or wrong . You may add if you please but don't just spew scripture , this is not a scripture war . If you contribute (which I hope you will) explain yourself in your own words ...YOU decipher and tell in your way . As stupid as I am and will try you could too . Thank you for your response in advance !

[GhostHawk]

I agree about the original sin. When they ate from the tree they were told not to eat from they fell from grace. In many respects I see much of the bible as a history of God trying to find a way to restore them to that grace.

Not being a bible scholar, and being lazy about reading my bible I can't quote you chapter and verse.

But I think we are pretty much in agreement.

Many times I feel I am not doing enough for the Lord. I often ask him if there is not something more I should be doing. His reply is that I am doing what I can. That the time is not yet, be patient, don't lose faith. Hold what you have. Ready yourself for the days to come. Mentally, physically, spiritually. Be ready to share what you have to share.

Always he reassures me, it is ok bill. You are one of the flock. You come when I call, you have a humble heart. You are trying daily to be better. It is ok. My yoke is light. I do not expect you to do great things for me. Carry on as you are. You reach more people than you know.

Boaz I know we had this conversation before. And following your advice I did go back and look at some threads from 2-3 months prior. You were right. I was surprised how many had read some of those threads. Many do not say anything.

So all I can do is trust.

I believe Lord! I believe all of your promises, the ones about salvation. I believe you have risen. I believe you will come again. One way or another I believe I will be waiting for you. I believe you will welcome me with open arms.

I just need to keep faith. Not lose heart, not fail to depression or despair.

I am your sheep Lord. I follow.

[Boaz]

Thank you for your thoughts and honesty . You will not fail through depression or despair because of your faith...biggest part of your salvation .

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[Boaz]

I'll tell you some truth . I have attended so many services , bible studies , seminars , lectures , different churches or whatever that I couldn't count them up . BUT ! It was 90% repetition . I ain't bragging , I am being honest . I have learned through personal experiences from others through testimony , conviction in action , love shown , caring by no self serving reason and my own failings more than any lecture I ever sat through .
A true Christian is a living testimony , a true Christian is an inspiration , alas I have failed . I am not there but I try . To try is our goal . But though I fail constantly my GOD still loves me .

[Wayne Smith]

I find it interesting that salvation is used in all three (English) tenses (four in Greek) - I have been saved, or I was saved; I am being saved, or I am saved; and I will be saved. It is an ongoing process controlled and directed by God. Yes, this does tend to confuse our concepts of 'salvation' and 'sanctification' but it is what it is.

[claude]

(Philippians 2:11-13) "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. {12} Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. {13} For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

The gift that keeps on giving.....

[Blackwater]

Amen, Claude. And Boaz, I too find much of most church services to be repetitive. Preachers try VERY hard to keep it "fresh," but even as an older teenager, I began to notice the repetitiveness. I knew it was to help save new souls, but when I looked around and saw noone there who hadn't already committed themselves, it started to be .... well, in all honesty, it became boring. But I kept going, and taking whatever tidbit here and there that I could find out of it, and slowly, grew as a Christian. But as Claude said, when one truly believes, we will always, to our dying day, WANT so much more than we already have of our understanding and relationship with Christ. At that point, I suspect we all really have to start going off on our own, just as we did when we became mature enough to leave home and go out and make our own home somewhere and somehow. Learning about our Lord is, I think, a lot like a young person leaving home for the first time. It's intimidating, in a way, to be out alone with only your beliefs, among all the evil that's in the world. But it's also how we learn and mature, as well, and THIS is the key to everything we do as Christians. If we ever stop learning or yearning to learn, it seems we inevitably "backslide," and fall into things we ought not.

We're all human, and even the best and brightest among us is not immune from at least brief moments of "backsliding." That's just our essential nature, that inevitably seems to HAVE to come out in some small way, at least, from time to time. Following Christ is something none of us does perfectly, as Christ followed the Father. Therefore, we must be eternally vigilant and guard ourselves from bad influences, and temptations. But at the same time, be willing to go "into the lion's den" without fear, and do our Lord's work, when it's called for.

Our work is never done as long as we still have breath within us. And we do get a bit weary now and then, but really ... what a great adventure Christianity is, when properly lived! Nobody learns as much as when they're amid a real adventure in life. And I've long thought of Christianity as more of an "adventure" than a "challenge," though challenges certainly confront us all at times.

And if you get it all figured out, Charlie, you're a heap smarter than ME!!! I'm just learning to enjoy the ride, even the rough spots.

[jcwit]

Because of orginal sin is why I go to confession!

[Boaz]

I confess myself , I understand . I guess we both confess .

[Boaz]

Amen, Claude. And Boaz, I too find much of most church services to be repetitive. Preachers try VERY hard to keep it "fresh," but even as an older teenager, I began to notice the repetitiveness. I knew it was to help save new souls, but when I looked around and saw noone there who hadn't already committed themselves, it started to be .... well, in all honesty, it became boring. But I kept going, and taking whatever tidbit here and there that I could find out of it, and slowly, grew as a Christian. But as Claude said, when one truly believes, we will always, to our dying day, WANT so much more than we already have of our understanding and relationship with Christ. At that point, I suspect we all really have to start going off on our own, just as we did when we became mature enough to leave home and go out and make our own home somewhere and somehow. Learning about our Lord is, I think, a lot like a young person leaving home for the first time. It's intimidating, in a way, to be out alone with only your beliefs, among all the evil that's in the world. But it's also how we learn and mature, as well, and THIS is the key to everything we do as Christians. If we ever stop learning or yearning to learn, it seems we inevitably "backslide," and fall into things we ought not.

We're all human, and even the best and brightest among us is not immune from at least brief moments of "backsliding." That's just our essential nature, that inevitably seems to HAVE to come out in some small way, at least, from time to time. Following Christ is something none of us does perfectly, as Christ followed the Father. Therefore, we must be eternally vigilant and guard ourselves from bad influences, and temptations. But at the same time, be willing to go "into the lion's den" without fear, and do our Lord's work, when it's called for.

Our work is never done as long as we still have breath within us. And we do get a bit weary now and then, but really ... what a great adventure Christianity is, when properly lived! Nobody learns as much as when they're amid a real adventure in life. And I've long thought of Christianity as more of an "adventure" than a "challenge," though challenges certainly confront us all at times.

And if you get it all figured out, Charlie, you're a heap smarter than ME!!! I'm just learning to enjoy the ride, even the rough spots.

I will never figure it out . I do not have the answers and will seek till I go home . Don't take me wrong , I love to hear GOD's word from the pulpit by a man that loves GOD . I will never complete or finish learning . At times in seems I know nothing . If you don't put your words into action you are nothing .

[jcwit]

I confess myself , I understand . I guess we both confess .

I also confess myself to Christ, the Priest only listens and absolves me of all my sins in the name of Christ.

[Boaz]

I understand how it works . I was married to a Catholic , I was a foster parent and started an interdenominational program to get kids into church their parents belonged to . In church a foster parent had to be with them at all times . In the process I attended Catechism classes with the kids . I attended mass . I helped the KOC with fish frys and sausage fests . I keep a Catholic bible and a King James bible side byside in my waiting room at the shop . I understand how it works and I accept you as my brother in Christ

I confess to GOD because I believe only he can absolve/forgive my sin . I do not have to defend the way I worship GOD and neither do you . We alone are responsible for ourselves . But both of us are told to love one another . Can you deny that ?

[jcwit]

I understand how it works . I was married to a Catholic , I was a foster parent and started an interdenominational program to get kids into church their parents belonged to . In church a foster parent had to be with them at all times . In the process I attended Catechism classes with the kids . I attended mass . I helped the KOC with fish frys and sausage fests . I keep a Catholic bible and a King James bible side byside in my waiting room at the shop . I understand how it works and I accept you as my brother in Christ

I confess to GOD because I believe only he can absolve/forgive my sin . I do not have to defend the way I worship GOD and neither do you . We alone are responsible for ourselves . But both of us are told to love one another . Can you deny that ?

Well put! And no I can not deny that. We both should and must love one another, very important!

[Blackwater]

You know, Boaz, I've thought about this thread a number of times since you posted it, and really, I think all we can really KNOW is: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." It seems to me this allows for death bed conversions, and lots of ways. It seems the Lord doesn't want ANYONE to be lost, and thus, has made it as easy as He could for any of us to be saved. All the rest, in my view at least, is a refinement and bolstering and strengthening of our belief. It's getting to know our Savior, and finding ways by which we can serve Him better and more consistently. But salvation itself comes the moment we come to belief, I think.

I'm no great theologian, but I'm also not a legalist when it comes to these type things, either, so that may color some of my views, I guess. But I also think God gave us a conscience to use as a sort of compass to decide what way we will go, and if we truly follow our consciences, and have "studied to show ourselves approved," then I think we'll do well in this world, even if we don't always meet with an easy path as we tread along our pathway in life. Learning is a progressive and constant thing, if we'll simply let it be. And I thank God for that, because we're certainly not born knowing Him the way we need to! We truly serve a loving and wise Lord!

[Loudenboomer]

Yes. When you completely accept the blood of Jesus as the only possible atonement for your sin you are Justified. Instantly. It matters not if it's on a death bed or a thief on a cross. Jesus told us a parable about this. Workers in the field working all day or just a short while all getting the same pay they signed on for.
Sanctification - This Is a life long process of the Lord shaping his redeemed. I need a lot of Shaping. Praise the Lord for Salvation by GRACE!

[smoked turkey]

I believe Wayne has said a mouthful in his post #5. The idea of "progressive sanctification" comes to my mind when we talk of the fact that being saved is a process. As stated by others, this subject is hard for us mortals to wrap our minds around. I believe that today I am saved. If I die today I will be in heaven. If I "study to show myself approved" later on today, and gain new insight in what the Lord has planned for me both in doing (works) and being (saved), and as a result be a "better Christian" than I was yesterday, then I have elevated my Christianity to be a little more Christ like than I was yesterday. I am not more saved, but I am more effective for the work He has laid out for me. If I die tomorrow I still am a Christian and will be in heaven. I believe that being a little more Christ like is a good thing and from a worldly sense I could say I am a better Christian than I was. It is a continual progression and will be until I actually die and go to heaven to be with the rest of you saints. Just my rambling thoughts on this lofty subject.

[Blackwater]

"I am not more saved, but I am more effective for the work He has laid out for me."

Now THAT is what I was TRYING to say! Thanks, ST! That's my position, and what I beleive. YMMV, but if it does, you really need to deal with the "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ ...." verse, IMO. But we'll always find stuff to disagree about, I think. It's just how we work and are, as humans. Even Christ's words, that he suffered so much for to bring us, will always, unfortunately, be a source of disagreement, rather than discussion and edification. We CAN do better, and I'm so thankful that we here seem to do a pretty good job of it here! You guys are the best!

[Boaz]

My admission . I started this topic and have been negligent , I am being pulled in many directions by life and cause , I feel I must do . I actually planned to prepare not a lesson but basics of salvation regardless of denomination . I planned to speak from my heart to others , shedding any doctrine bias . The topic of salvation is key to me in glorifying my Lord , in helping those seeking to find a rock to cling to until they gain enough strength through him to move on .

Help me .I am awash in trying provide relief in my poor way to those in need around me . I move slow these days and time works against me . Through your heart and without spraying scripture explain our Lords offer of salvation to the unknowing , that scripture is lost on those that do not know him . Save your verse for believers for which it will build and confirm . Speak from the heart , testify , encourage , use your own words to explain ...salvation .

Thank you
Charlie

[Thundarstick]

I have often thought of salvation sort of like the relationship I have with my house dog. I know it sounds strange, but hear me out. You see, I picked that dog when he was a puppy love feed him, vetted him, tried to house train him, but you see he's still a dog. When he goes out after a rain I tell him, "don't get in a mess", but he being a dog gets messy. Do I beat him? Shoot him? No, I clean him off so he can come back inside! You see, he's my dog!
My youngest son is an addict. He's had some rough times, but I didn't know recently they where of his making. On my way home from work this evening he called me. He said he needed to tell me something. Then he tells me, dad, I got a DUI 6 months ago and just haven't been able to tell you, I slipped. My response? I love you, you know God loves you, your paying the consequences of your actions, I love you! Now don't dwell on it, continue to do what it takes to stay sober, and keep moving forward. You know I love you, rite?

The rest of the way home I'm thinking of how perfect God’s love is for us if where his adopted sons (o I adopted him at 5yo)! I can't begin to fathom the depth of his love. That love he shows me over and over and love again when I get messy, when fall down, when I think I just can't take life any more, he's there! He wants us all there with him despite the faults we have! I tell people that God loves their children more than they can and he proves it!

[GhostHawk]

Don't push it charlie, you have a lot on your plate.

When you have an opportunity to speak I have no doubt that you will, and effectively.
We all seem to find our own way, but in most cases many people in the past have through example, through good works laid the framework for us to be able to fill in.

I believe that the Lord works in mysterious ways.
I also believe that he works through people, often many people.

Just keep being who you are, doing what you do. Work on keeping Charlie strong, secure in his faith, and on the path. When he needs you to do more he will find a way to tell you.

I would pay attention to your dreams at night.
If in doubt, go to him in prayer and ask for guidance.

I also believe that what we do here in the chapel reaches many people that we never really know of.