Thinking of ditching LEE Dies

[Recluse]

Granted you can either get a good set or a bad one. Generally the quality of every die set was better 30 years ago than it is now simply because now days they are concerned with getting more product out the door and to hell with quality. Honestly I have tried other peoples Lees dies and their simply not for me.

Yep. Thirty years ago, we had a lot fewer reloaders and the manufacturers were competing for market share. Fast forward to the recent political climate of the past eight or more years and the (reloading) market has exploded in growth. Now it's about how much and how fast a manufacturer can pump out to meet the demand. When that happens, the old idiom of "Want it Fast, Cheap, Good? Pick two and only two."

A LOT of my reloading equipment that I purchased more than twenty and thirty years ago is still superior in quality and materials and workmanship compared to what I'm getting today. On the other hand, some of the optics and sights and peripherals for the firearms themselves are vastly superior to what I was purchasing thirty years ago.

[W.R.Buchanan]

As someone who is involved daily with Machine work and that technology in general I am here to tell you that virtually anything made on todays machines is superior to things made 20-30 years ago.

New machinery is not only more accurate, it is easier to program and there are more features that help you produce better parts. Finishes are better now too.

How those machines are used and who is using them is where the differences are. Also Quality Control has not changed and what is "considered acceptable" to go out the door is now the defining factor for Commercial Parts.
Not strict adherence to a drawing or standard. This level of acceptance varies with whomever is inspecting.

Sometimes you can't just reject parts that don't look exactly like the last ones. They simply cost too much to make and if they will work you have to use them. I run into this myself all the time. This has to do with each individuals idea of what the part is supposed to look like when it is done. You can have 5 different parts with exactly the same dimensions on them, but each looks completely different from the others. All of the parts are made to the print so theoretically they are good to go and would work just fine. But they look different.

In order to get consistent parts you must clearly define what is acceptable and what's not. (and its a good idea to supply a Sample Part) That way there is no misunderstanding as to what is expected.

Defining Finishing Techniques is also important.

There are two basic things that define Craftsmanship. Attention to Detail, and Personal Responsibility.

Attention to Detail is self explanatory.

Personal Responsibility is all about not letting the things you found wrong during the "attention to detail phase," go out the door.

This is where most outfits fall off. This is also usually perpetrated by employees that don't give a ship about what they are doing. They need to get plumbed up, or they need to go out the door! I have no tolerance for these people and I don't care if you are building Rockets or Flippin' Burgers, if you don't care about what you are doing, I got no use for you. Pretty vocal about this when I see it in action too.

Lots of Fast Food places suffer from this problem. The places with good supervision don't.

A friend once told me that "if there is a problem at a company, it is a management problem!" This is pretty easy to figure out and yet it happens everyday and goes uncorrected at lots of companies thruout the world.

These are places to avoid. Our government offices are places where this is normal. I try to avoid them at all cost, but sometimes I just have to endure their BS to get what I want out of them. Anybody been to a Social Security Office lately?

I rest my case.

Randy

[flashhole]

Randy - chit is a better word than ship. I agree with you. I work for a very large defense contractor. The problems we deal with are ALWAYS associated with how we manage our business. Uncorrected management short comings is a fact of life. Sad but true. I view most managers the same way Trump views "100,000 non-essential Government employees" why the heck do we have them in the first place. ..... wait ..... we can thank the democrats for that.

[6bg6ga]

So you buy a die ? It does not work right ? You don't call the maker to see if you are using it wrong ? You don't spend 6 bucks for a flat rate envelope to send it back ? That makes perfect sense to who ?

I have FOUR Lee 4 die handgun die sets. When RTFI is followed they all work perfectly. Of course I read the instructions for the proper use of a 4 die set. Did I mention one set is 9mm ?????

Friend i don't know how you would use a die wrong. I was a master machinist so I sincerely doubt that I need someone to tell me how to use a die that combined with 50 years of reloading make your response rather laughable.

[flashhole]

I don't think so unless humor was intended (which i think it was). I've seen people who can't open a milk container without reading and studying the instructions. His response was a bit facetious but accurate.

[John Boy]

But I bought a deluxe 45 colt die set from Lee and like most of their other dies, it really over works the brass. Internal neck diameter of .445!! My 255 grain RNFP's are sized to .452.

Call Lee Precision and send it back
Lee Guarantee ... http://leeprecision.com/satisfaction-guaranteed.html

I shoot 45LC exclusively for CAS. All the dies on the Dillon are Lee. The 45LC's are 454190 and the base diameters are 0.454. The Lee FL die sizes the brass and in the seating station - the bullets seat and do not expand the cases and the crimped reloads are not pregnant.

[kmrra]

I pretty much use Lee dies now days because of the price , I havent had any problem with them at all as lond at they go bang im OK. That being said , Lee does screw up at times , their QC department sometimes drops the ball. But then again Ive seen well known gun makers put out junk too.

[Hannibal]

'Too many people spend money they've earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like.'

Will Rogers

Lots of egos on display in this thread.

[ShooterAZ]

Friend i don't know how you would use a die wrong. I was a master machinist so I sincerely doubt that I need someone to tell me how to use a die that combined with 50 years of reloading make your response rather laughable.

I find all of happywarrior's posts either laughable or offensive. He has nothing useful to add to this forum, and only wants to stir up trouble. He has been placed on my ignore list, and I hope that the mods catch onto him soon and straighten him out. He reminds me very, very much of a former member here who has been banned.

Edit to say that the Mod's caught onto him. He has been banned.

[salpal48]

Lee is what they were meant to be Cheap For the Loader who does not or will not spend Money. There serviceable I have several. and Use them. In caliber that I don't Load a Lot. . I also Have RCBS, Lyman, and a lot of CH and Herters. Some thing I like about Them and some Don't. I do not like there Decap rods, Expanders and There seating system
Well Thinking about It I don't Like Much of there Dies, but still use them

[Hannibal]

I'd tend to agree that while there are exceptions, for the most part I find most any die will work IF I take the time to pay attention and modify my set-up/techniques to accommodate the equipment at hand. And I find the same can be said for moulds, scales, powder measures, etc, etc, etc.

When I find something extremely convenient and satisfying, rarely do I find it to be inexpensive. So. I find myself living with A LOT of inconvenience. But I make it work.

YMMV.

[oldhenry]

The only Lee die I own is a collet set for .270 & it's is excellent.

Even the best manufacturer will send something out the door that is not exactly right. Years back I bought a Redding .38/357 "Pro" die set for my Dillon. The seating die was useless because it was so tight that it removed the bell from the mouth & shaved lead. A call to Redding had me sending it back to Redding (my dime) & from my conversation I had doubts that they understood the problem. The die is returned & was no better than it was when sent. Another call to Redding: another return (my dime) & when returned finally worked OK (with a notation on the paper work " altered to customers request"). This leaves me wondering if they really understood the problem from the beginning.

Case #2 with Redding: 7X57 die set. After resizing the bullet would fall through the case neck (no tension). Call to Redding followed by returning to Redding (my dime). When received back, I swear they sent me the same die. Bullet falls through the neck. Return again (my dime) & when received back was OK. Does this mean all Redding dies are problematical?.....certainly not. They make good stuff & have some good employees, but I just happened to get connected with someone that either did not care ......or, just made an honest mistake.
Incidentally, the crimp die with that set produced an ugly crimp. I put it in the junk drawer & screwed in a 50 year old Lyman item & everything works OK. BTW, I love my Redding Ultra Mag.
I never bought a Redding die since.

I also stopped buying RCBS anything after my "Green Machine" experience. Now it's Dillon dies for the handgun calibers & Hornady for the rife calibers.

I changed my buying habits as a results of my experience........maybe not the smart thing to do, but I feel better.
I didn't mean to rant.
Henry

[mdi]

'too many people spend money they've earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like.'

will rogers

lots of egos on display in this thread.

Amen!

[SgtWest]

own several Lee dies I just reload for hunting and practice . The only time i have had problem was my part not the equipment .Redding is only30 minute away from me one day like to take a look.

[1bluehorse]

I've owned several sets of Lee dies in the past. I moved on to RCBS dies because (I) think they're better (and they only cost about 10 bucks more than Lee dies for a rifle set). I've since moved on from RCBS rifle dies to Forster because (I) think the Forster's are better dies. I still use some RCBS dies for handgun but have mostly moved to Hornadys. People buy Lee equipment because it's cheap then they try and convince themselves and others that it's as good as any out there. Your LoadMaster is not as good as a Dillon 650, nor a Hornady LNL. I do not own either of those presses, but have owned a few LM's and now use an RCBS Pro 2000 which is also much better than the LM. And it goes on down the line with Lee equipment in comparison with others with the exception of a very small number of good pieces as in the Lee collet die, maybe the six banger molds ( I have a couple of those and they work o.k., can't really think of much else on short notice) If all reloading equipment as we know it today carried the same price tag per part there probably wouldn't be much discussion of Lee equipment, so it's pretty much all about cost for Lee buyers. So, no, I don't care for Lee dies. Just my opinion of course.

[dragon813gt]

People buy Lee equipment because it's cheap then they try and convince themselves and others that it's as good as any out there.

I love when people make massive assumptions like this. There are many reasons people buy Lee. Cost is but one of them. Results on target are all that matter. Use whatever brand you want. But I find the people that buy higher end dies tend to bash Lee because they need to justify the higher costs of their purchase.

[ShooterAZ]

I love when people make massive assumptions like this. There are many reasons people buy Lee. Cost is but one of them. Results on target are all that matter. Use whatever brand you want. But I find the people that buy higher end dies tend to bash Lee because they need to justify the higher costs of their purchase.

Ummm....Talk about massive assumptions! Yes use whatever brand you want, but please don't try to convince us that your Lee dies are superior to my Redding or RCBS...It's obvious that you love your Lee dies and that's OK. I have a few sets left, and they work but there's no way in hell do they even begin to compare to the higher end dies. Do you you shoot silhouette or benchrest? I do, ask a few of these guys in your area what they use.. sorry it's not gonna be Lee.

[dragon813gt]

Hey, if you guys can make massive assumptions so can I. Stop trying to convince people that Lee dies don't work. Fact is they do. People can buy and use whatever they want. You don't see Lee users saying other brands are junk. But the brand snobs never disappoint.

[ShooterAZ]

Are you a Lee snob?

[308Jeff]

I really like the Lee Factory Crimp Dies.

I really like the Lyman M Expander Dies.

I really like the Hornady Lock Rings.

I really like the RCBS Gold Medal Match Seater Dies.

I really like the Redding Type S Neck Bushing Dies.

Doesn't matter what it costs, or how much you pay, buy what works well for you.