Thinking of ditching LEE Dies

[6bg6ga]

As someone who is involved daily with Machine work and that technology in general I am here to tell you that virtually anything made on todays machines is superior to things made 20-30 years ago.

New machinery is not only more accurate, it is easier to program and there are more features that help you produce better parts. Finishes are better now too.

How those machines are used and who is using them is where the differences are. Also Quality Control has not changed and what is "considered acceptable" to go out the door is now the defining factor for Commercial Parts.
Not strict adherence to a drawing or standard. This level of acceptance varies with whomever is inspecting.

Sometimes you can't just reject parts that don't look exactly like the last ones. They simply cost too much to make and if they will work you have to use them. I run into this myself all the time. This has to do with each individuals idea of what the part is supposed to look like when it is done. You can have 5 different parts with exactly the same dimensions on them, but each looks completely different from the others. All of the parts are made to the print so theoretically they are good to go and would work just fine. But they look different.

In order to get consistent parts you must clearly define what is acceptable and what's not. (and its a good idea to supply a Sample Part) That way there is no misunderstanding as to what is expected.

Defining Finishing Techniques is also important.

There are two basic things that define Craftsmanship. Attention to Detail, and Personal Responsibility.

Attention to Detail is self explanatory.

Personal Responsibility is all about not letting the things you found wrong during the "attention to detail phase," go out the door.

This is where most outfits fall off. This is also usually perpetrated by employees that don't give a ship about what they are doing. They need to get plumbed up, or they need to go out the door! I have no tolerance for these people and I don't care if you are building Rockets or Flippin' Burgers, if you don't care about what you are doing, I got no use for you. Pretty vocal about this when I see it in action too.

Lots of Fast Food places suffer from this problem. The places with good supervision don't.

A friend once told me that "if there is a problem at a company, it is a management problem!" This is pretty easy to figure out and yet it happens everyday and goes uncorrected at lots of companies thruout the world.

These are places to avoid. Our government offices are places where this is normal. I try to avoid them at all cost, but sometimes I just have to endure their BS to get what I want out of them. Anybody been to a Social Security Office lately?

I rest my case.

Randy

Its nice that once again I can read another of your replies where you get to pat yourself on the back for your superior machine work. Atta boy Randy!

Now, for a look at the real world... Companies don't give a rat's butt about the quality of their products just the quantity. In Randy's world however things are different things are as they are supposed to be. When I worked in the factory I was a quality control supervisor until the plant closed and before that a machinist. My world of quality control consisted of if it doesn't affect form, fit, or function then FFFF it as dictated by the company. In other words if it comes close to the specifications it goes out the door. If it is barely good enough to work it get shipped. That is today's real world. We had strict quality specifications and procedures and we wrote up parts on a daily basis only to have the rejected parts put into service and or sold.

In Randy's world things get made on state of the art machines. In most cases in the real world things get made of machines that were born during WWII as was the case of 99.9% of the machines that were in the factory that I worked in. In todays world the true world companies most of them anyway don't purchase $500K machines unless they can make up the cost in the first 6-8 months after purchase. At the company I worked of the three new machines they purchased in a 20 yr time period two worked great and one averaged down time to the effect of 10 hours in a 24 hr period. This went on for a period of 2.5 years with the factory machine specialists being dispatched to our company to baby sit the new machine daily for a period of over a year. Now, that's quality in those new machines folks the ones that are making those high quality parts.

[6bg6ga]

Parts count

Redding 2
Lee one decapping die one 9mm taper crimp
RCBS 15
Dillon 9
Competition dies RCBS 2

[Pressman]

My apologies to the posters and readers of this thread. I used some inappropriate language. I know better, but somehow it slipped by my ordinary filters. My mind must be a little foggy from all the meds I am on. I will make certain it won't happen again. In the meantime, I ask the forgiveness of any I might have offended.

Randy, no offense was taken. We are just glad you have meds and you are still here.
Your wisdom and insite is better than most and good as the best.
Keep it coming.
Ken

[powwowell]

I'll jump in here because I can. Compared to most of you I'm a novice reloader. Just got into this hobby a few years ago. I read the ABC's of reloading and then I purchased a Lee Classic Turret kit. The Lee manual was included. There was enough real instructions in it to get me started. And ALL that load data! The kit came with 9mm dies. I later purchased .45ACP, .380ACP, .38/.357 and .45 Colt dies. Until the Lee bashers educated me, I didn't know I was making rounds with inferior equipment! And I have been using that terrible Lee Loading Manual, written by that insufferable Richard Lee. I am grateful for the Lee equipment and the Lee manual. Don't give a rat's behind about Richard Lee's character.

I have since moved up to a Hornady LnL AP press. Guess what . . . I bought more Lee Dies. I have not used any other make of dies. I have purchased Hornady lock rings. They are super nice. I've also kept my Turret press. When I have my first issue with Lee dies, I promise to reveal my problem on this forum.

To show that Lee is not perfect, I did work with a Lee Pro 1000 for several weeks. It made great ammo, but it took a lot of fiddling. I got tired of the fiddling.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I never trade with <language> holes and I don't want them or others to think that <language> holism is a good business model.

Charles: I plan on using these isms in the future!

Randy