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Thread: Why Moses and Elijah?

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    Boolit Master

    Ickisrulz's Avatar
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    Why Moses and Elijah?

    On the Mount of Transfiguration Moses and Elijah appeared and began to discus Jesus' departure. Why Moses and Elijah? These men have two things in common: one is that neither one of them completed the mission God gave them.

    Moses was prevented from taking the Israelites into the Promised Land due to his display of anger.

    Elijah had to be replaced by Elisha due to his belief he was the only person living for God. He had given up on Israel.

    Could it be that these men were uniquely able to encourage Jesus to complete his mission because they knew what it was like to fail God?
    Last edited by Ickisrulz; 07-18-2017 at 04:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    The two are representative of the Law and the Prophets, and contrary to common misconceptions are not dead, (as evidenced by their appearance on the mount of transfiguration, and Mark 12:7). It is quite possible their time to finish their assigned rolls has perhaps not yet come, so failure is not certain by any means.

    Consider the two witnesses of Rev 11, and ask yourself, could it not be that Moses and Elijah be these two witnesses, returned to earth to complete the task assigned by the Father?

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    Now THIS is the kind of discussion that's, at least to me, VERY interesting! It forces us to assume things without full knowledge of the reasons, and speculate about the reasons. But speculation is GOOD, providing only that it is consistently perceived as speculation, and not true knowledge. All the rest of the contents of the Bible can be used to support differing views, but to me at least, they're all fascinating, and illustrative of something significant. Please keep this thread going. I think things like this help us more than we realize, usually.

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    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Well said Claude!

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    Boolit Master

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    I have heard people say that Moses and Elijah represented the Law and the Prophets, respectively. Of course I understand why Moses is associated with the Law, no one else could be. But I do not understand how Elijah stands for the Prophets. Elijah was not the first prophet, longest serving prophet or the most successful one. Why him?

    What would the significance be of having representatives of the Law and Prophets meeting with Jesus before his death? Are they merely symbolic of the Old Covenant that would soon pass away? Were they discussing what had been written about Jesus in the Scripture? If so, this would make Elijah an odd choice as he was not a writing prophet. Additionally, Jesus seemed to be intimately familiar with what had been written about him.

    I make the assumption that Moses and Elijah were there to meet a need Jesus had at that time. What need could this visit have met for Jesus? Remember, they discussed Jesus' "departure."

    Looking at Moses and Elijah, there are two common things associated with their ministries. One is the appearance of unprecedented signs from God (miracles). This parallels Jesus' ministry. The other I have already stated: neither of them completed their mission. Jesus was at the point where he had to resolutely make up his mind to complete his. This is the reason I suggested what I did in the original post.

    I will admit this mystery cannot be fully solved. We can only look at the clues and speculate.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude View Post
    The two are representative of the Law and the Prophets, and contrary to common misconceptions are not dead, (as evidenced by their appearance on the mount of transfiguration, and Mark 12:7). It is quite possible their time to finish their assigned rolls has perhaps not yet come, so failure is not certain by any means.

    Consider the two witnesses of Rev 11, and ask yourself, could it not be that Moses and Elijah be these two witnesses, returned to earth to complete the task assigned by the Father?
    This is interesting info pertaining to your post...

    https://www.thisisyourbible.com/inde...w&mediaid=3278

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Ickisrulz, thank you, there are indeed questions left unanswered, and my post is in part supposition. Concerning the subject of the conversation entailed, if we are told that information, I have missed it,

    (Matthew 17:1-3) "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, {2} And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. {3} And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him."

    and,

    (Mark 9:3-4) "And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. {4} And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus."

    Shoot-n-lead, thanks for the link, however I disagree with the author, I believe we are raised immediately upon death and are with God from that moment on, which side of the gulf not withstanding,

    (Ecclesiastes 12:6-7) "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. {7} Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

    (2 Corinthians 5:6-9) "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: {7} (For we walk by faith, not by sight: ) {8} We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. {9} Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him."

    Our Spirits (the intellect of our souls) and those of Moses and Elijah, and everyone who has gone on before us must have a body to be the intellect of, when the flesh dies we all go to our incorruptible bodies, immediately,

    (1 Corinthians 15:51-54) "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. {53} For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. {54} So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

    Some will have put on immortality, (deathlessness-no longer liable to die) some not, God does the deciding on that issue.
    Last edited by claude; 07-18-2017 at 04:06 AM. Reason: clarification

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    Boolit Master
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    So you believe these scriptures teach that the last trump will sound at the moment of our death? Is sleep here not a metaphor for dead. It seems to me he's trying to reassure the congregation there that death is temporary, and we'll be raised AT the last trump. What of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus where it seems there's a temporary holding place for the soul until that trump sounds.
    I'm more inclined to agree with the posted links author here.

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    Boolit Master
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    So you believe these scriptures teach that the last trump will sound at the moment of our death?
    No brother, I do not, I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. The quote from 1 Cor. 15 is to illustrate that we have two bodies, one terrestrial and the other celestial and that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom 1 Cor 15:50, therefor we must put on our spiritual bodies. Perhaps my shortcut is to short, assuming understanding not yet manifest.

    To gain a fuller understanding read all of the chapter and understand that until the last trump those that die in the flesh(terrestrial) are returned to God immediately upon death, in a spiritual body(celestial), because 1 Cor 15:50 and the remainder, those still alive in the flesh, are changed immediately into spiritual bodies at the last trump. All flesh dies at the last trump, Zech 14. All that remain alive in the flesh are changed.

    Simply put, 1 Thes. 4:15 those who have (prevented G5348) preceded us in death have already changed, and are present in heaven, which ever side of the gulf they are on.

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    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    It is given unto all men to die in the first death.

    Enoch did not die. That's why I beleive he will be one of the two witnesses.

    He was also perfect in the eyes of God and who better to lead the last spiritual revival of men.

    Moses died in Moab according to scripture.

    Elijah was taken in a whirlwind.

    If we beleive what we read, these two are alive and must die in the first death before judgement. It seems rational to me that they were saved for this purpose.
    Last edited by NoAngel; 07-18-2017 at 09:04 AM.
    When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"

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    Boolit Master
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    NoAngel, good points

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    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    When considering "The Two" it's worth noting that Moses completed his objective. Leading God's Chosen out of captivity and into the land given to them.


    The Two have a mission to bring Gods chosen back to him once again. Clearly ALL are welcome to hear their message but the Hebrew Children will be their primary target. The Hebrews are not going to be very receptive and would be even less so to anyone outside their canon.

    This period is very difficult to understand for many. The writer had to express what he saw in written word, things unfathonable at the time. Tim LaHayes fictional adaptation will really help anyone struggling as well as John Hagee's prophetic study bible.

    The debate over the identity of The Two has raged for many moons and one should never be so arrogant as to think they have the whole thing down 100%. It's entirely possible The Two will be complete strangers. It's not like The Man needs our approval to do so.
    When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"

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    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoAngel View Post
    When considering "The Two" it's worth noting that Moses completed his objective. Leading God's Chosen out of captivity and into the land given to them.
    Moses did not complete his objective. He was prevented by God from leading the Israelites into the Promised Land (Numbers 20:12). Moses did not even enter the Promised Land, he observed it from afar (Deuteronomy 34:1-4). Joshua took Moses' place and led the people across the Jordan (by parting it) and into Canaan.

    Moses was replaced by Joshua who completed his mission.

    Elijah was replaced by Elisha who continued his mission.

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    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    Moses did what he was tasked to do. God just told him "This is where your story ends."
    God had his reasons for stopping him at the door. Just because he wasn't the one to walk into the promised land with them didn't mean he failed the task appointed to him.
    When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"

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    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by claude View Post
    Ickisrulz, thank you, there are indeed questions left unanswered, and my post is in part supposition. Concerning the subject of the conversation entailed, if we are told that information, I have missed it
    28 Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white. 30 And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. Luke 9:28–31, ESV.

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    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoAngel View Post
    Moses did what he was tasked to do. God just told him "This is where your story ends."
    God had his reasons for stopping him at the door. Just because he wasn't the one to walk into the promised land with them didn't mean he failed the task appointed to him.
    If I hire a kid to mow my lawn, but have to fire him half way through the job because he’s throwing rocks at passing cars would you say he did the full job? Should I pay him for doing the whole lawn?

    God told Moses on several occasions he was to lead the people into the Promised Land. That was his task. This was the whole reason behind the Exodus. Moses did not lead the people into the Promised Land. God prevented him due to Moses' behavior. Therefore, Moses only completed part of his mission.
    Last edited by Ickisrulz; 07-18-2017 at 11:55 AM.

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    Boolit Master
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    one should never be so arrogant as to think they have the whole thing down 100%
    That's very true, by the same token a watchman should never hold back.



    A simple observation, pointed at no one in particular, but very prevalent in many discussions concerning the buzz words pride, and hate which I often see used to cast aspersions or doubt upon a particular concept. Assuredness, and righteous indignation often being the targets.

    When the subject is well defined and the object, as in this thread is "could it be" the doors are much wider open, allowing supposition. Supposition being just that, I suppose it to be, but have no proof. As far as ignorance is concerned, none of us are immune.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    If I hire a kid to mow my lawn, but have to fire him half way through the job because he’s throwing rocks at passing cars would you say he did the full job? Should I pay him for doing the whole lawn?

    God told Moses on several occasions he was to lead the people into the Promised Land. That was his task. This was the whole reason behind the Exodus. Moses did not lead the people into the Promised Land. God prevented him due to Moses' behavior. Therefore, Moses only completed part of his mission.

    ....and God didn't know that's what he was going to do before he gave him the task?
    No different than with Judas.

    We are all pawns in the King's game.

    Free will and choice is for US in own minds and hearts. To the omniscient one, the choice is already made.
    When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"

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    Boolit Master
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    Ickisrulz,

    Thank you, I had indeed overlooked that scripture.

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