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Thread: Need some martini cadet help.

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    Yes Iv'e been thinking of alox
    The ones I painted didn't give me grief , but the 50/50 bw/vas did.

    Apart from the gut turning smell of the stuff; alox has worked for me in the past before.
    I think it must not go anywhere and form a gooey gasket down the bore or something.

    My sample pack of CBE bullets were marginal at best with the loads that were around the others that shot good.
    May have been the lube but the only outside bearing in my groove is the thin drive band. that and the nose a bit small I think I would have trouble getting them to shoot in a non sized case.
    I would either have to hone /ream out the heel to suit my cases or make a stepped breach seating tool to align the bullet up in the starting blocks properly.
    Easy way is to get a set of dies and work the brass.
    The RCBS mould looks good to me if it casts big enough.
    Nei has one too but have no specs on that and haven't a reply from them yet.
    Accurate moulds have a couple that might just be great with a bit of tweeking.
    But they all would be pricey compared to a homegrown ozy one.
    Hmmm

  2. #22
    The rcbs mould I got 15 years ago drops bullets at .323-324 on the nose and .312-.313 on the shank. It is great apart from with Bertram brass, which is too thick (my chamber might be slightly short). I turn Starline 32-20 cases down, shorten them and resize to fit the chamber. These are 6 thou less wall thickness than Bertram brass so work well with the .312 shank.

    310 cadet is like oversize .22lr when it works well. Really easy to shoot.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    Thnx for that Black beard.
    I got hold of some hawkesbury 310 cadet commercial cast bullets of a bloke but they turned out to be the 316 diameter size and not the healed variety.
    He got them for scrap lead price and I swapped him for some.
    Sized them down and paper patched some to try.
    The big game shoot is on this week-end and I tried 3 different powders in the loads that looked the best promise.
    Ap 50n 4.0 gns with a dacron filler and a 60 thou hard card wad on top.
    The starline re-mastered cases allow me to finger seat the base edge of the pp'd bullet into the mouth if I flare them with a 8mm mauser round's projectile for a fixed load. This also seals the chamber and stops blowby around the case neck.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Only had ten rounds of each load and this is the best I can do.
    2x 5 shot groups with clean bore.
    4x touching at 50 and the last a flyer.
    Shoots to the sights pretty well and apart from having difficulty seeing the 3" square sticky label at 100yrds at all I think they have done extremely well.
    I'll see if I can put the hurt on a couple of shooters in the rook and rabbit event and the pot rifle.
    Ha
    Looks like I'll have chase up the rcbs mould for an easy cast lube shoot fix.
    PPing just the end bit of these bullets aren't real fun and quick for me....but it does work and the barrel is shining up nicely.
    A couple of hundred more and this thing should be like a mirror.
    Last edited by barrabruce; 08-11-2017 at 07:21 AM.

  4. #24
    I am pretty sure that there is a Australian supplier with proper 310 cadet dies. They refused to export to UK but you would have more luck. Try google.
    If you have a 309/311 lube-sizer and can make a cup to go over the grooved section of a bullet then you can use the sizer to put a heel on to the neck section of a bullet. Fire them backwards. Work well with shortened 8mm bullets.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master BigEyeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Beard View Post
    I am pretty sure that there is a Australian supplier with proper 310 cadet dies. They refused to export to UK but you would have more luck. Try google.
    If you have a 309/311 lube-sizer and can make a cup to go over the grooved section of a bullet then you can use the sizer to put a heel on to the neck section of a bullet. Fire them backwards. Work well with shortened 8mm bullets.
    that would be Simplex , they manufacture and sell reloading dies and equipment from thier website . I have three sets of thier dies and find them excellent quality .
    My 310 dies are the Lee ones ,they work ok.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

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    Barrabruce,

    My experience is with a BSA that was reamed out to .32-20, but as the Cadet bore is larger than the .314" a .32-20 calls for, it's kind of a bastard hybrid.

    You're checking your bore dimensions, which is the most solid thing you can do. I wouldn't trust anyone's statement on what your bore SHOULD be. Mine's about .3185" as I recall, and the custom mold Veral Smith cut from my pound cast drops at .3205". The end result groups 2-3" at 100 yards and requires only a .30 caliber bore snake to clean.

    Since you're running the original chamber spec'd out for heeled bullets, I would be looking at Accurate Molds, and provided Tom with the inside diameter of a fired case, as well as your throat and bore dimensions. He could put tumble lube grooves on the nose section easily enough.
    WWJMBD?

    Buried in molds until covered with mold.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    Yep thanks fellas.
    I chopped off the breach end of another 310 and use that for forming and sizing my cases now.
    I was using a tapered hole in a something or other that tapered the 32-20 shoulder down to fit the 310's chamber to fire form cases for a start.
    I just need a lathe and plenty of time and I'm sure I could make the chamber end a bush to fit into it for a neck sizer and use it as a seater too.
    So I don't need or even want dies.
    ( one of these days)
    Well I missed the rook and rabbit event by turning up late this morning.

    I did place in the first 20 in the pot rifle thou.
    (15 shooters)
    I was competing against 308's, 243's 22-250's and such like mostly with half a Hubble on them.
    When I moved the target from 100 mtres to 50 I thought I had no hope looking at the mess I made of shooting it.

    But the results were posted and I actually got 3rd.

    Not bad for a hundred year of rifle shooting dubious bullets wrapped in cheap paper.
    Haaa haa haa I hope that they are made aware of what out shot them just to rub it in.

    Imagine what could be done with something that works and shot by some-one who could really shoot.
    WOW
    Just gotta love it.
    Either that or they all must be really bad shots.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curator View Post
    One of the keys to getting the .32-20/310 cadet rifles to shot accurately without leading is using the correct diameter (.319-.322) heeled boolits cast of ACWW alloy at about BHN12-15. CBE in "Straila" makes the best .310 cadet moulds for the money. Slug your rifle first. Another tip is using the "wax gas-check" or a 1/8" dental wax wad under the boolit. Shooting smokeless powder means the breech pressure is not sufficient to obturate the boolit enough to seal powder gas blow by until the slug is 2 or 3 inches down the bore. This is the source of the "leading." The wax wad fixes this problem. Some years ago, Ross Siefried wrote an extensive article on getting the .310 Cadet and the .32-20 conversions to soot accurately. Copies of this article are probably out there in cyberland.

    MY go-to load for the .310 Cadet and the .32-20/310 cadet hybrid is 4.5 to 5.0 grains of unique, a 1/8 inch wax wad under the 120 grain CBR .310/322" heeled boolit lubed with Lee liquid Alox. This load shoots to the sights on the Cadet rifles out to 300 yards which is all the distance I have to shoot locally. Plenty of information out there on the web about doing this. Some of it is actually true!
    I hesitate to post this because I am a rank amateur and have no experience at all with a Martini Cadet. However, this may be of some use to those who load this round with smokeless powder: I have been researching and experimenting with reloading 22lr. As you know it was designed for black powder. When the time came for it to be loaded with smokeless powder the ammunition makers had to solve the problem of having the bullet obturate with the different burn characteristics of smokeless powder. So for that aspect, the Martini Cadet and 22 rim fire have the same dilemma. In his book "Ammunition Making" George Frost dedicates a chapter to the the history of developing 22lr match ammo for smokeless powder in the years from approximately 1935 to 1954. One of the key elements of loading this round that differed from the old black powder ammunition was the crimp. Frost describes the crimping method and the parameters for match grade 22lr. Previously black powder loads were only crimped to hold the bullet in the case. With 22lr the crimp is important enough for them to set the parameters at "Bullet Pull" minimum and maximum. The average being between 45 and 50 lbs. In my experience loading 22lr, a deep, tight crimp showed itself to be the key to velocity and consistency. The difference between deep tight crimp and very little crimp with the powder I use is dramatic. No crimp=misfires, click bangs, low velocity and poor accuracy. Tight Crimp = no click bang, no misfire and velocities high and consistent.
    With these things in mind I would think that the same logic would apply to the Martini Cadet cartridge. You may find that a tight deep crimp will solve the problems you describe. At least it's worth trying.
    AKA hans.pcguy

  9. #29
    Boolit Mold Wheelwaits's Avatar
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    Does anyone sell the CBE molds in this country ?? No luck with the RCBS version. I have two Cadets a full military and one someone started "sporterizing". I'm using Bertram brass and I've tried #2 alloy -wheel weights and pure lead . Bores are good but "patterns "not groups.....

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

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    I'd do a Chamber cast to see what you have in each rifle.
    Before I'd go out and buy another bullet mold.

    They do ship to the states and your $ is so much more than ours as well as our postage is cheaper.

    Just cost me 1/2 the value of the rcbs mould to get one sent over here and it still will workout cheaper than buying it here from a store.

    CBE does have a good selection thou and I would buy one if it was going to fit my gun with out alteration from the start.
    I have a drawing of a mould I have drawn up for say accurate moulds to make for me but will wait and see if the rcbs mould does the goods or not.
    I'm pretty sure it will.
    Its a short version of a 308403 pope style bullet.
    Just finger set into fired brass.


    I got some bertrum brass but it is too short for some of the bullets I've used in my rifle.
    I have some starline brass 32-20 which is thin as, but can make it as long as I need too.
    Rp and Win 32-20 brass is harder to get where I am and heaps more expensive. And haven't played with any examples to tell what they are like.

    In fact I haven't seen any for a few years for sale when I'm out rummaging through gun shops.
    Last edited by barrabruce; Yesterday at 06:38 AM.

  11. #31
    Boolit Mold Wheelwaits's Avatar
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    I was using the bullets as dropped from the RCBS mold.. Spray lubed with Hornady lube. Tried some #2 alloy.then straight wheel weights (95% lead , 5% antimony) and pure lead. Tried various powders...Shots were all over the place...I'll try a chamber cast if I can find my Cerrosafe..... Next step might be rebarreling. 357.... or a 22 of some sort 218 bee ???

  12. #32
    Boolit Mold Wheelwaits's Avatar
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    Can any of you "Down under" guys tell me what the "AJC" stamp on this one might mean ??? This is the "sporterized" one of mine..

    http://

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check