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Thread: Does Too Fast Or Too Slow Equal Just Right For Cast?

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Question Does Too Fast Or Too Slow Equal Just Right For Cast?

    Cast data, experience, and anecdote is split showing that the best cast rifle loads use powders thought of as too fast or slow for the cartridge at hand with jacketed. There seems to be no clear winner between too slow or too fast, although the Lyman and RCBS manuals lean toward too fast.

    I've mostly settled on too fast for substantially reduced loads and too slow for those that are just a bit reduced to keep cast happier.

    Where do you lean too fast or too slow?
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


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    In the rifle cartridges, I go with very slow. I shoot the 30-30 Winchester (WC-852 & WC-860)), 308 Winchester (WC-860 & 5010-PD), and the 30-40 Krag (WC-860 & WC-872). Velocities are not blistering, but I am getting 1950 from the Krag and the N.O.E. 311-202-RN…

    I do use fast powders in the straight-wall handgun cartridges. Just light loads…

    I simply have never had good accuracy with fast burners in the rifle cartridges. Plus as is known and been repeated many times—I have no chance of double charge with the slow burners—I throw all charges…

    Good-luck…BCB

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Never have gained any advantage reloading at max charges, even with black powder
    Regards
    John

  4. #4
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Call me mr Red Dot Fan Boi. I have had very good success with quite moderate to small loads of Red Dot.

    I have also had good luck in 7.62x39 in my Mosin's with 20 grains of IMR 4895 under the Lee .312 185 gc leemented out to .314 and run through a .314 to seat gas check. Then 3 light coats of BLL. Same in my Yugo SKS.

    My .444Marlin Handi rifle I have shot Red Dot from 6 grains under 220 gr cast to 13 grains under the Lee 310 gr RCBS clone with very very good accuracy out to 100.

    My .357 Mag Handi rifle shoots cloverleafs at 50 with a Lee 158 gr .358 plain base round nose over 4.6 grains of Red Dot. It had 2 out of the 3 in a cloverleaf at 100 and I pulled the last one half an inch up and left. Still dang good for this ol farm boy. But not as pretty as it could have been. Operator error.

    In fact that 4.6 grain load I have shot in every caliber I have tried between .223 rem and .357. They all shot good. The .30-30 was quite good. I think my 7.62x39 handi rifle barrel is just not yet broke in. I need to shoot it more. See if it tightens up.

    The .223 I have run everything from 3 grains under the 55 grain bator without gas check up to some 7 grains and a hornady 55 gr FMJ. They all shot well. All easy minute of squirrel at reasonable ranges.

    Start in the middle, work both ways. I prefer to shoot 3-5 for each charge weight and make notes of group size. When you find a good one make some more and test it out.

    On the .357 load the 4 grain was good, the 4.5 was better, the 5 lost some ground.
    So then I tested every 0.2 grains. 4.2, 4.4, 4.6 was the big winner.

  5. #5
    Boolit Man
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    I prefer the slower powders that perform good with jacketed bullets. I download the powder charge for the cast bullets. I want to avoid the risk of double charges. I once had a double charge of 20 grains of unique through a 30-30 win94. Plenty of velocity, but the action and chamber did not like it.

  6. #6
    Boolit Man
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    GhostHawk,

    One day you're going to wake up a little sleepy still and pour Red Dot on your Cheerios, and have half of the bowl ate before you catch yourself -- then just keep eating.

    It is very easy to like a powder that provides so much utility in so many rounds and lets you drain your powder can quite slowly, too.
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    I like to use some of the faster powders like unique or red dot for light target, or in some cases, short to medium range woods hunting.
    Saves on burning more powder when you really don't need it.

    For more speed while maintaining accuracy, i like to fill the case with a slow burning powder(like imr
    4350) in my whelen and the .308 for full blown hunting and target loads.

    The slower powders tend to give a softer send off to cast boolits, and is a good way to boost the speed and keep accuracy at near jacketed speeds.
    Provided of course, you have the right fit and alloy in the boolit.

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
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    35 Shooter,

    That's very like the way that I use Unique and 4831.

    Those old IMR reloaders' guides, printed on what looked like shopping bag paper, were great for loads like these with 4831 and 4350.
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landy88 View Post
    GhostHawk,

    One day you're going to wake up a little sleepy still and pour Red Dot on your Cheerios, and have half of the bowl ate before you catch yourself -- then just keep eating.

    It is very easy to like a powder that provides so much utility in so many rounds and lets you drain your powder can quite slowly, too.
    Would have happened already, except.

    A I used to milk cows, get up, milk, 2 hours after rising milking is done, go eat breakfast. My internal clock is set to this now.

    B Red Dot is all in the basement, food is all upstairs. But otherwise, yeah it would happen.

    C No cows to milk so I drink coffee for a couple hours and read forums. So I am wide awake by breakfast.

    But yes you gots to love it.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    if I'm going slow I use fast.
    if I'm going fast I use slow.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  11. #11
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    if I'm going slow I use fast.
    if I'm going fast I use slow.
    LOL, that is so true.

    ...
    Myself, I have become a "middle of the road" type of guy.
    When I first started casting and loading boolits, I fell into the "chasing the extremes" catagory (fast heavy boolits with slow powders and slow light boolits with fast powders...and some other extremes). But honestly, I didn't really know what I was doing. The more I tried different things, the more I seemed to find solace in the middle of the road.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    ShooterAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    if I'm going slow I use fast.
    if I'm going fast I use slow.
    He stole my answer LOL.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    if I'm going slow I use fast.
    if I'm going fast I use slow.
    I agree with runfiverun.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


    blikseme300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    if I'm going slow I use fast.
    if I'm going fast I use slow.
    Me three, this is what I do as well.
    Liberalism is the triumph of emotion over intellect, but masquerading as the reverse.

    I don't know how we ever shot maximum loads before P/C come along and saved us all. R5R

    "No mosque in the United States flies an American flag."

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check