45 caliber Cherokee loads

[Saxtonyoung]

Yesterday I spent a couple hours shooting my 45 caliber Cherokee using 160 grain 357 cast bullets in sabots with charges of 777 ranging from 50-80 grains. My best group was 2.5" at 50 yards, which would probably be fine for my purposes but I would still like to shrink the group.

Today I will try some 200 grain REAL bullets, they are a shorter bullet and maybe more suited to the 1-48" twist.

Round balls are another option but just looking for a little extra weight.

This gun has a scope on it so my lack of shooting small groups has nothing to do with lining up with iron sights.

Any suggestions for loads would be appreciated.

[725]

Triple seven is so energetic that sometimes with / some rifles / some chosen projectiles / it pays to try other propellants. I worked a long time on a friends .50 cal ML with Triple Seven and got good results, but results that weren't quite good enough for the quality of the rifle. Almost as an afterthought I stuffed a few loads of Pyrodex in the mix and literally got one hole performance. Go figure. Real black powder has always given me wonderful performance. Around the peoples republic of Maryland, real BP isn't as easy to find as the substitutes. Luckily, the substitutes work just fine. I'd suggest expanding your range work with other powders.

[mooman76]

It isn't really designed for sabot so likely that is going to be your best group. Not saying it can't but that's about it. You could try different sabot but that could get expensive. If you want more weight going with the REAL is probably the way to go. If I remember correctly your twist rate is 1/48? Use and over powder wad for the real. That seems to work best for optimum accuracy.

[Squeeze]

I always just shot roundball in my cherokees, with a 60 grn charge of goex. you have to be carefull loading them hot, as they are known to crack at the wrist with too much stress. the 48 twist just isnt the right blend for sabot/bullet loads, and to stabilize, you may just end up needing too hot of a load than the gun can handle. (not so much a safety concern, but more a crack the wrist.. these guns are well known for stock problems when loaded hot)

[Saxtonyoung]

Well I was able to shoot the 200 REAL bullets with 60 grains of 777 with simular results that I had with the sabots. No sense me trying to make this gun something it's not and will consider it a 50 yard gun. I have other muzzleloaders for longer ranges ,was just hoping to get a little more out the 1-48" twist.

[quilbilly]

I use round ball in both my 45 Cherokee and Seneca as well now but early on I used those sabots in the Seneca. To my amazement at the time, the Seneca (didn't have the Cherokee then) preferred 9 mm cast boolits over 357 and the accuracy in that rifle with 125 gr 9mm cast RN boolits was superb. The load was 55 gr of 3F Goex. I got several deer with that sabot load but where the load really shined was on coyotes out as far as 200 yards (I was using iron sights of course and my eyes were younger then). I never could figure out why there was the difference between 125 gr .355 boolits and .358 - 125 gr boolits both in those blue MMP sabots. BTW - PRB work better on deer which is why I switched plus they are more fun to shoot (history, you know).

[dondiego]

Are .45 cal sabots still readily available?

[quilbilly]

Are .45 cal sabots still readily available?

I don't think so but could be wrong. MMP (Magnum Muzzleloading Products) made the blue ones for 45 to 355 or 357 but I know they still make the green 50 to 429 sabots plus others. I still have a bag of blue ones around here someplace.

[pietro]

.

MidwayUSA, Graf's, Hornady & others all carry .45 cal conical boolits, sabots & their (.357") boolits, and round lead balls.


I've used T/C Maxi-Hunter conicals in my Cherokee & Seneca rifles, since I first bought the Cherokee in the early 1980's.

My go-to load for MaxiBalls in both my .45 rifles is 70gr FFFg, which seems to have about the same power as the .44 Rem Mag.

I used Pyrodex when it was first introduced, but after experiencing a few hang/mis fires , I switched to FFFg Holy Black, and never had another hang/mis fire.






FWIW, I never even considered shooting them for small group size, since AFAIK game animals don't usually stick around after the 1st shot (unless a spine or head shot makes them DRT).

I simply zeroed them @ 100yds with the load I use - they haven't failed me yet, on shots at game.



.

[OverMax]

Such loadings for the smaller T/c rifles are listed in my T/c owners mannual that I got along with my 80s bought Hawken rock-lock NIB. Should be able to have T/C send you a owners manual cost free if you ask .

[Saxtonyoung]

Are .45 cal sabots still readily available?

Yes MMP still offers 45 caliber sabots , Blue ones for .355 - .357 bullets and Brown ones for .400 bullets.

I have thought about shooting the shorter 125 grain bullets, they would probably be better suited for the 1-48" twist.

[Saxtonyoung]

Harvester Muzzleloading also offers 45 Caliber Sabots for .400 bullets.

[OverMax]

Here's where I buy and have done so for years. The best sabo's combo I found. I personally didn't care for Harvester products when I experimented with. I just found them lacking in accuracy >I< wanted to see from my 45 Hawken at 100-125 yards distance.

Home page
https://www.prbullet.com/

This is what I shoot. (link below) And been pleased with across the broad spectrum of bullet and performance of. "No way would I buy some others product."

https://www.prbullet.com/ee.htm

[quilbilly]

OverMax - Interesting that you were dissatisfied with the Harvester sabots. I found the same thing in the 50 cal sabots compared to the MMP sabots. The only thing I could attribute the difference to was that the Harvesters seemed more slick to the touch than the MMP's. It was my understanding then that they were made in the same place. Another mystery emerges.

[Tom W.]

I still remember poly patches by Butler Creek.

[Maven]

Saxtonyoung, This link should answer your questions: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/Shooting_TC_Guns.pdf

[curator]

Maven:

Thanks for the T/C manual. Mine got waterlogged years ago. I have 2 Senecas and 1 Cherokee rifle and find heavy loads no fun to shoot. These guns are very light weight and their narrow, curved butt plates do a great job of transmitting the full impact of recoil to your shoulder. My most accurate and lethal hunting load using the Lee 45/200 R.E.A.L. slug is 60 grains of FFFg black powder with a felt wad between it and the bullet base. More powder just generates more recoil and is less accurate.

[Maven]

curator, Glad I could be of assistance. I had to look up some loading data for the T/C .56cal. Renegade smoothbore the other day and find the T/C Manual to be an excellent resource. Btw, I used to own a .45cal. T/C Cherokee and it was painful to shoot with Maxi-Balls. Scary accurate though with both RB's and Maxi's!

[OverMax]

poly patches by Butler Creek.

funny you should mention still have a few unopened bags here for (45 54 & 58cal) Bought and never tried shooting em. lol

[phonejack]

I couldn't get sabot/bullets to work in mine either. I tried Power Belts and those work great. I only use those for hunting, rest of the time it's round ball.