Wisconsin TriggerInline FabricationGraf & SonsTitan Reloading
StainLess Steel MediaRotoMetals2Lee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters Supply

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: seating cast bullets

  1. #1

    seating cast bullets

    so here is my issue. I dont like to bell the case mouth it weakens the brass and its a pain in the butt in my opinion. So what I do is I just hold the bullet up there with my fingers and line it up as best as possible then slide it into the seater die and seat the bullet. This process has always worked pretty good for me with jacketed bullets aside from a few copper shavings here and there the bullet always seems to seat nice and pretty. This is not so with cast bullets. I tried chamfering the case mouth with my deburring tool and my bullet sits down in there pretty good but when I go to seat the bullet it is almost always slightly canted. you can see a slight bulge in the brass case on one side and the bullet is just off center. its probably only off center by less than .020 inches and it doesn't really effect accuracy but it still bugs the **** out of me. in the past I have made like a dummy round with a jacketed bullet that has an extra long OAL and I press it into my cases that i'm about to reload just enough to where i can still pull it out by hand to kind of loosen up the case a little bit and this really helps with seating sometimes its almost like a half *** bell of the case without really bending the brass case mouth. at any rate I would like to hear any and all comments on what other people do to tackle this problem or if they even have a problems. Hobbies are the one thing I hate doing half *** so I would like to hear if there is a good solution for this.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Springfield, Oregon
    Posts
    2,280
    A good solution is bell the case mouth. Your loading cast Boolits. It's one of the NECESSARY steps to produce good accurate ammo.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    plains of colorado
    Posts
    1,244
    Now you understand why there is a market for used brass, and why everybody wants once fired, it wears out when you reload. if you figure it out let us know

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    418
    I think the answer is to bell the case just enough that the cast boolit goes in strait. I have some 9mm and 38's that I KNOW I've loaded better than 10 times. Not all brass will, but some can last a lifetime.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    462
    Beveling the inside of the case heavy helps some also

  6. #6
    Boolit Master




    Bzcraig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Nampa, ID
    Posts
    3,263
    Quote Originally Posted by waco View Post
    A good solution is bell the case mouth. Your loading cast Boolits. It's one of the NECESSARY steps to produce good accurate ammo.
    Quote Originally Posted by rancher1913 View Post
    Now you understand why there is a market for used brass, and why everybody wants once fired, it wears out when you reload. if you figure it out let us know
    Quote Originally Posted by psweigle View Post
    I think the answer is to bell the case just enough that the cast boolit goes in strait. I have some 9mm and 38's that I KNOW I've loaded better than 10 times. Not all brass will, but some can last a lifetime.
    There ya go......
    "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same......." - Ronald Reagan

    "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived." - George Patton

    The second amendment is a nail on which hangs a picture of freedom - member Alex 4x4 Tver, Russia

  7. #7
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Lynn Ma
    Posts
    137
    You're only going to either crush your brass or shave lead off your bullet if you don't flare your cases. I've never had a semi auto case or a rifle case split from repeated flaring.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama
    Posts
    168
    It's a tuff situation that is always encountered with cast boolits. Case mouth tension is needed and any extra stretching of brass is something we all try to discourage for lots of reasons, but, no need to worry too much, it is all part of the procedure. Bullet profile can make a difference at times, such as those with a beveled base, but it is hard to get around having to stretch the case mouth a bit. This is what I use for this issue.


  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    soda springs Id.
    Posts
    27,148
    there s the issue of neck tension to overcome.
    when you shove a copper wrapped chunk of lead into the case you do so with about .002 neck tension. [and a bhn of around 50]

    now when you shove a 12 bhn piece of lead into .004 worth of neck tension your twisting and bending everything including that brass.
    it shoving over to the side like that is indicating a weak spot in the brass neck and is where the split will occur.

    using less neck tension [or opening the case straight] and putting a slight bell on the case mouth isn't going to shorten the case life as much as the extra stress your putting on it the other ways.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Hick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Winnemucca, NV
    Posts
    498
    I was also concerned about working the brass too much by belling the mouths, but I finally concluded it was necessary. I bell as little as possible, but enough to give the cast bullet a good start. My 32 Winchester Special cases have 15 reloads like this with no problems, and my 30-30 cases are at 11 reloads, also with no problem. My conclusion is that its not as big a problem as I thought it would be.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    1,314
    I use a stepped expander (M-die).

    I usually size cast boolits 0.002" over jacketed diameter. I like my stepped expander to be 0.001" less than boolit diameter and the larger step about 0.002-0.003 over boolit diameter.

    Brass is not overworked and the step allows the boolit to seat straight every time. The brass doesn't size down or swage my soft lead boolits. BHN 10-12. And case length is not critical as with a Belling die that overworks the case mouth when a long case is belled.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    kungfustyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    613
    I have some Mossin Brass that I've reloaded about 20 times, PPU to be exact. Anneal the brass, use a Lyman or NOE "M" die or just flare it enough to get the boolit seated with a Lee universal flare die, but flare the brass. All pistol brass needs to be flared. It is a nessasary step to the reloading cast boolits process.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    314
    For the 9 and the 38, I use a Lee flare die. Cheap enough, you can adjust to your hearts content and really see right away how much is enough.
    Mr. Waco nailed it, please bell the case.
    bill boy

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    3,278
    Yes , there are some excellent solutions. Unfortunately they all include some form of belling or neck expansion. The reason is cast lead is relatively soft, the brass case is harder so in the seating process the boolit takes the beating . Here are the only solutions I know of:
    1.) Bell the case mouth with your reloading dies, carefully adjusted just enough to get them started straight with no shaving .
    2.) Lee Universal Case Flaring Tool with a NOE M-type expanding plug.
    3.) Lyman M-Die for the round being reloaded.
    Sometimes seating and crimping in separate steps helps. Cast boolits do not straighten themselves out , crooked in = crooked out.
    Options #2 and #3 are the best way to seat cast , they prevent the brass case from sizing down the boolit when it is seated, undersized boolits cause their own problems . But #1 can be made work most times ...depending on the dies expander plug. The problem is most standard dies are set up for the harder, slightly smaller , jacketed bullets....That's why option's #2 and #3 were developed .
    My personal experience has shown I like Option #2 the best, even without the NOE stepped expander plug the Universal Expanding Die is quite useful and one of Lee's good idea's .
    Gary
    Last edited by gwpercle; 07-16-2017 at 09:24 AM.
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    3,869
    Brass is expendable. It stretches every time we fire it. Make a slight bell on the case just enough to start to boolit and quit worrying. Brass wears and splits. That's what happens. It's the joy of shooting and the cost of the hobby to keep myself sane.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


    williamwaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dallas Texas
    Posts
    4,739
    I have 38s I bought used around 1970. They have been reloaded around 50 times. I have around 500 left out of the original 1000. Each time I fire them, I lose 4 or 5. Say 1%. In every case the case body splits lengthwise. Never at the mouth. I have lost more cases to crushing while seating tilted bullets in unflared cases.

    If, indeed, you are experiencing split necks., you are flaring too much.

    I really like that lyman two stem "M" die for bottle neck rifle brass but it is too aggressive for straight wall handgun cases.

    Another very effective solution is bevel base bullets but they are really messy to use in a lubrisizer.
    First reload: .22 Hornet. 1956.
    More at: http://reloadingtips.com/

    "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the
    government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
    - Henry Ford

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,098
    You have to bell them. Like Williamwaco I have .38 & .45acp brass from decades ago that are still chugging along. If you have Lee PTE handgun dies, they can be adjusted to flare rifle brass of like caliber. When I first loaded cast in rifle calibers; my flaring tool was a .50 BMG cartridge they I just pushed the bullet tip into the neck to get the flare I needed. I haven't needed an M die yet but I understand why they exist. If you don't like half ****- get the M die(s) and flare that brass- you won't hurt it!

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

    Calamity Jake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Okla. City
    Posts
    2,326
    I used the Lyman "M" die for years, even made some custom sizes for over size bores.
    I shoot ott 6 most of the time.
    I have went to a Redding bushing neck die for all cast loading in the ott 6, 308 and a couple of others.
    To find the proper size bushing I seat a boolit of the proper size in a sized case then check neck
    OD with a mic, not calipers, then subtract .002 from that size to get bushing size.
    Get a 60 inclusive angle countersink/deburr tool to chamfer case mouths, that's 30 per side.
    After using any chamfer tool no mater the angle there is a small burr at the bottom of the
    chamfer, I remove that burr with an X Acto knife.
    The combination of the 60 chamfer and .002 neck tension works very well for me YMMV.
    Calamity Jake

    NRA Life Member
    SASS 15704
    Shoot straight, keepem in the ten ring.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis, indiana
    Posts
    987
    use the "M" die.

    you can't do any better.

  20. #20
    Boolit Mold

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    7
    I took an old die and with a drill and a file I made a expander die for my .223 out of a grade 8 bolt. I flare it just enough to set the base into the mouth. You can hardly feel it on the outside of the case. I have been using these cases for years and have had no problem with them wearing out.
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check