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Thread: 2500 fps w/gas check .308 What Alloy will I need????

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    2500 fps w/gas check .308 What Alloy will I need????

    So good day to do some casting have a good supply of super hard linotype pewter Tin and lead
    For a good sturdy 155gr gas checked .308 about 25fps what's a good mix?? Not yet powder coating. Just want a reliable less leading the better.
    Thanx for your input.
    Last edited by Dadswickedammo; 07-15-2017 at 07:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Man
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    I have no idea how baby got in the mix

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Maybe baby's make it harder. Sure is tough to catch them when they get behind a sofa.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master JMax's Avatar
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    Your rate of twist will determine success. I cast for a 6.5 Swede and am limited to 1400 ft/sec but with my 03 and Krag I can push them to 2000 ft/sec. the Swede has a 1 in 7.5" where the 30 cal rifles have a 1 in 10" twist. This keeps the RPM under 140,000. You will probably need a 1 in 14" twist. RPM=(velocityx720)/twist rate or twist rate = velocityx720/140,000. Basically a 1 in 14" twist rate yields a 133,700.

  5. #5
    Boolit Man am44mag's Avatar
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    Baby, you might need to try powder coating those bullets.

    I've heard of people pushing them up to 3000 fps. You might not be happy with the accuracy though.

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  6. #6
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    If you want to shoot a ternary cast bullet accurately at 2500 fps w/o PC or PP then the "baby" that will be the needed, as mentioned, is a 14" twist barrel....preferably a 26"+ long one for use with your .308W.

    If you have a 10 or 12" twist then you might read; http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....pic,533.0.html

    BTW; a "sturdy 155 gr GC'd' bullet also has to be of the proper design. I suggest you use one of the alloy calculators on this forum and mix up some Lyman #2 alloy (90-5-5) with what you have. Learn to cast not only "sturdy" bullets but extremely uniform cast bullets both dimensionally and weight wise. There is a real difference in what is needed in a cast bullet quality wise once you push above 2000 fps, even in a slower twist.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    yawn.. what a bunch of baloney.

    try something close to lyman #2 that's what I use in my 223's at 2800 fps.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


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    Yawn.......when will you post actual test results to prove it's "baloney "?
    Larry Gibson

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  9. #9
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I can run my 222 2640 fps 24" bbl a 1-12 the 1-8 223 16" will only go 2050 fps . Must be bad casts only getting into the 223 but not the 222 ....... I guess I shouldn't pour them all in the same box any more .....

    Funny thing how the 8.5" 30-06' , special order 1965 , will stop at 1800 fps same as the SKS but the 1-12 308 will go 2100 .

    The only place I've seen a different result is in the 7×6.8 vs the 6.8 SPC . The 11 twist 16" carbine gas 6.8 AR will only allow me 2050 with the 278-124 while the straight neck up 7×6.8 in a 9.5 twist let me run a 27-130 FP paper patched to 2375 . Must be the paper .......
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    For me and my .30 cals., accuracy runs out at about 2000 fps or less, so no need to go faster.

  11. #11
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    runfiverun's Avatar
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    I showed pictures and had witnesses.
    your still calling me a liar.
    nice real nice.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  12. #12
    Boolit Master


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    Not calling you a liar at all. Some of us get bad boy points of a go sit in the corner time out for such accusations.....

    What I'm saying is many make claims of accuracy, HV accuracy and very HV accuracy with cast bullets on this forum but fail to provide documentation of such. Kind of like fisherman with how big the one that got away was......

    A one time 3 or 5 shot group does not accuracy at any velocity make. On demand repeatable accuracy is another matter regardless of the velocity. We've yet to see anyone post 2500+ fps 8 - 10 shot groups shot at 100 yards with repeatable accuracy out of 10 or 12" twist rifles that has remained linear in group expansion to 300 yards or even 200 yards. That repeatable accuracy is such that a sufficient size test (8 - 10 shots) of groups holds in a linear fashion at longer ranges such as 200 or 300 yards. Testing only at 50 or even 100 yards means little unless that is the only maximum distances that will be shot at.

    Can you give us the thread where you posted pics of 2500 fps with accuracy (let's just say 2 moa with a 8 - 10 shot group)out of a 10" twist .308W or even a 12" twist? I do not recall ever seeing that, not say it wasn't posted but I don't recall it is all. So refresh our memories please, if you would be so kind?

    I do recall the results you posted using the goodsteel built .308W or 30 XCB (?) rifle with the SS 14" twist Lilja barrel.....perhaps you're referring to those?
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 07-18-2017 at 02:00 PM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  13. #13
    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarrior View Post
    Outside of curiousity, what is the point of a 2500 fps boolit ? In ancient times a 220 gr bullet in a Krag would shoot well to 1000. I'd opine that a 220 gr cast boolit would do well at 1/2 that distance, stating out at 1800 fps.

    Because there's always somebody trying to ice skate uphill.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Prone~50yds, then bench @ 100, both from the same batch of ammo. AR10 @ 2400 chronied. 24" upper does the same @ 2700. Both DPMS 1:10
    Oh, 165gr GC HF red 4% sb 0.5% Cu.
    Whatever!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    HappyWarrior

    "Outside of curiousity, what is the point of a 2500 fps boolit ? In ancient times a 220 gr bullet in a Krag would shoot well to 1000. I'd opine that a 220 gr cast boolit would do well at 1/2 that distance, stating out at 1800 fps."

    Numerous "points"; because I want to, because it can be done, to stretch the effective range of .30 caliber cast bullets for hunting, mostly to show others that it really can be done.

    The pleasure in cast boolits is not duplicating jacketed performance, rather, duplicating what the Pope shooters were able to do 100+ years ago.

    Obviously your "pleasure" is different than mine.

    When my Tikka T3 target with modern optics and components can duplicate what any one of by pal's dozens of 19th century 32-40s Pope's, with lead and duplex loads, can do at 200 yards ( <1.5", 10 shots) I'd be estatic!

    Many have been doing that for many years and are "estactic"! Ive won the CBA Arizona Military State Match the last two years doing pretty close to that.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    Popper

    We've been through this before. Yours is not a ternary alloy. The OP has no copper in his components. Using copper makes the alloy even harder yet. Yes we can improve things with the addition of copper, by paper patching and by PCing. The OP mentions none of those. The OP wants apples and your selling oranges.

    You're shooting at and giving 50 and 100 yard results. Have you tested them at 300 yards yet, especially at 2700 fps? Appreciate the input though.
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 07-18-2017 at 02:44 PM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  17. #17
    Boolit Master NoAngel's Avatar
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    Giddy up, hayaa!!!!
    When dealing with islam one should always ask themselves: "What would Leonidas do?"

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadswickedammo View Post
    So good day to do some casting have a good supply of super hard linotype pewter Tin and lead
    For a good sturdy 155gr gas checked .308 about 25fps what's a good mix?? Not yet powder coating. Just want a reliable less leading the better.
    Thanx for your input.
    The OP is asking for:

    "a good sturdy UNCOATED 155gr gas checked .308 bullet that can go 2500 fps

    using: super hard, Linotype, pewter/Tin for alloys in his lead.

    We need to read the question completely, make sure we completely understand it before we give an answer otherwise we could just be confusing the person asking the question at best and worse case senario suggest somthing that is potentially hazardous.

  19. #19
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    ShooterAZ's Avatar
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    I was able to get the Lee C312-1552R to nearly 2300fps with "decent" (1-1/2"-2" at 100 yds) accuracy in a Rem 700 30-06 1/10 twist. I used Lyman #2 alloy, sized to .311 and lubed with Carnuba Red. Powder was IMR 4064. The best accuracy however was in the 2000-2100fps range. Beyond 2300fps accuracy went out the window so I didn't even try going any further with it.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterAZ View Post
    I was able to get the Lee C312-1552R to nearly 2300fps with "decent" (1-1/2"-2" at 100 yds) accuracy in a Rem 700 30-06 1/10 twist. I used Lyman #2 alloy, sized to .311 and lubed with Carnuba Red. Powder was IMR 4064. The best accuracy however was in the 2000-2100fps range. Beyond 2300fps accuracy went out the window so I didn't even try going any further with it.
    Mirrors my M700 .308 10" twist and Lee C309-200 RN with ACWW and PC with gas check. 2100 fps and 1.5"-2" groups @ 100. But I am happy with this. Need to try at 200 yd and see if it holds up.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check