A little Old School Fun with an Ideal 454190 and 30-1

[Ken in Iowa]

Last year I purchased some odds and ends from a local old boy. Several rolls of 50/50 solder and a rusty pair of unvented Ideal 454190 blocks were included.

I used Evaporust to clean the blocks and borrowed handles and the other hardware from another Ideal (round ball) mould. I am pleased with the results. Everything looks like it was made ca 1950, just a little older than I am. This is the first Ideal conical mould that I have used and I was intrigued to see how well it worked without the vents that were added later in the 1950s.

Now that I am tin-rich, I thought why not try the classic binary 30-1 ratio of lead and tin in this classic 45 Colt mould and cartridge.

My first electric melter, a 5# LEE was called to action. Slow, but sure, shiny 250 grain bullets were collecting in the pan.

Running my melt at 750-800 with a hot sprue plate made casting child's play. Boolits dropped in the .454-.456 range with sharp bands and no wrinkles at all.

My next casting session will find the Ideal getting filled with my typical 1-2-97 Cowboy alloy. If they cast half as well, I'll be happy.

[Outpost75]

PLEASE post pictures of the wonder mold and classic BOOLITS!

Pics of classic thumb buster and test target would be icing on the cake.

Ya gonna shoot Holy Black or that modern "smokless" stuff?

[Ken in Iowa]

Sure thing Oupost!

I had a typical casting session this morning. I ran a few more with 30-1 followed by 1-2-97. As expected, the ternary mix cast ok but was not as nice as 30-1. Both mixes drop around .455-.456

We have a wide variety of firearms to shoot these in. I'm quite anxious to try them in my Webley Mk VI cut for ACP/AR with loads at original 455 velocities. (Where's my copy of Barnes Cartridges of the World)

[Ken in Iowa]

The little wonder mould.

[Ken in Iowa]

With offspring.

[Ken in Iowa]

With Auto Rim cases. This might not work too well after all.

[Ken in Iowa]

Our popular 45 Colt Boolits.

All red Loob is BAC from Lars applied with an RCBS Lam II with a .454 die.

200 gr SWC for my 91 yr old Dad. Works great for SASS pistol over Trailboss.

225 gr RCBS 45-225-CAV This is a great Gamer Boolit in Rossi 1892s.

240 gr (actual) RCBS 45-230-CM. Great mid-range load over 5.5 of 700x

454190 showing it's Loob capacity.

Far right, a typical 250 gr commercial cast with hard lube.

[Ken in Iowa]

30-1 Boolits with dummies utilizing cases with a boolit base supporting cannelure. Perhaps an Ideal match with the nose crimp as a finisher.

[Ken in Iowa]

We shoot a lot of 45 Colt, almost all with newfangled powders. Plenty of Cowboys at our shoots use Holy Black and subs to fulfill our needs for smoke.

[Outpost75]

In my Mark VI Webley the favorite recipe is 3.5 grains of Bullseye for 600 fps with any appropriate bullet.

Your 454190 will do nicely.

[Ken in Iowa]

In my Mark VI Webley the favorite recipe is 3.5 grains of Bullseye for 600 fps with any appropriate bullet.

Your 454190 will do nicely.

Fresh out of Bullseye, so might try HP38 at those levels.

Which cases and OAL are you using Outpost?

[Outpost75]

Fresh out of Bullseye, so might try HP38 at those levels.

Which cases and OAL are you using Outpost?

I am using Starline .45 Schofield brass shortened to 0.87" with the rims turned by Reed's Custom Ammo in Oklahoma City, OK.

http://shop.reedsammo.com/455-Eley-4...?categoryId=-1

I am using Accurate 46-262H bullet at OAL 1.28"

Attachment 200132

[Blackwater]

Ken, I love the way that bullet just slides right into the cylinders of a SA. Really nice to use for much shooting. Your story brought a smile to my face. That old bullet did in many a man and outlaw, and soldier and indian. It hasn't gotten any less effective over the years, either! With all the talk about this or that feature of boolits adding so heavily to a load's killing effect, we tend to forget that the older loads, even those loaded with real black powder, STILL possess what they've always had, and CAN still do what they've always done. And in a firefight, having your bullets slide easily into the cylinders was a MUCH bigger asset than a big flat nose, or paper cutting shoulder. It'll still do to "ride the river with." As the old saying goes, "Lest we forget!"

[Ken in Iowa]

Ken, I love the way that bullet just slides right into the cylinders of a SA. Really nice to use for much shooting. Your story brought a smile to my face. That old bullet did in many a man and outlaw, and soldier and indian. It hasn't gotten any less effective over the years, either! With all the talk about this or that feature of boolits adding so heavily to a load's killing effect, we tend to forget that the older loads, even those loaded with real black powder, STILL possess what they've always had, and CAN still do what they've always done. And in a firefight, having your bullets slide easily into the cylinders was a MUCH bigger asset than a big flat nose, or paper cutting shoulder. It'll still do to "ride the river with." As the old saying goes, "Lest we forget!"

Well said! I could not notice as well that the boolit resembles a Civil War Minie, which would have been adopted about 1855. It looks like they were quickly learning about ballistic co- efficient at that early date.

Outpost-

Those dimensions are right on track with my auto rim cases and loaded ammo..

[Outpost75]

Well said! I could not notice as well that the boolit resembles a Civil War Minie, which would have been adopted about 1855. It looks like they were quickly learning about ballistic co- efficient at that early date.

Outpost-

Those dimensions are right on track with my auto rim cases and loaded ammo..

Golly! Don't 'cha jist luv it whin a plan cums togetter!~

[jaguarxk120]

That's the bullet my gun smith said to use with my Uberti, it has the larger cylinder throats.

He said to cast them soft and use a softer lube. When shooting the bullet base moves first and forces the lube

outward sealing the cylinder throat, the bullets cast with rounded grease grooves won't perform the same way

as the square groove bullets.

[Green Frog]

Well, at 30-1 pure tin to pure lead, they're going to be pretty soft. If they drop out the right size (or a little over to be sized as you lube them) that bullet should be a dandy for that Uberti or the Rossi that was mentioned in various posts. I'm a little confused though... did it drop bullets at .454 or .456? I wouldn't expect that big a variation out of one alloy at one temperature from the same mould cavity.

OTOH, if it really drops big enough for a 45 Colt, I'm not sure I'd try to size it down enough for the 45 AR you mentioned, at least not for an American revolver. Then again, I don't know about the bore on that Webley; it might be just right.

Froggie

[Outpost75]

Cylinder throats on S&W M1917s and M1950 .45 ACPs are typically .455-.456, Colt M1917 and New Service. 45 likewise, but MkVI Webleys more often .449-.451!!! Webley cylinder throats run tight and benefit from honing by DougGuy to proper size to match groove diameter.

[Ken in Iowa]

Well, at 30-1 pure tin to pure lead, they're going to be pretty soft. If they drop out the right size (or a little over to be sized as you lube them) that bullet should be a dandy for that Uberti or the Rossi that was mentioned in various posts. I'm a little confused though... did it drop bullets at .454 or .456? I wouldn't expect that big a variation out of one alloy at one temperature from the same mould cavity.

OTOH, if it really drops big enough for a 45 Colt, I'm not sure I'd try to size it down enough for the 45 AR you mentioned, at least not for an American revolver. Then again, I don't know about the bore on that Webley; it might be just right.

Froggie

I double checked and came out with the same results proving the mould is slightly out-of -round.

I have a .455" expander for Auto Rim, so it would accept as-cast boolits if we go that route. It would be simple to hand Loob with BAC for 30-1 in the AR revolvers. For rifle, I'll just stick with 1-2-97 and size .454 in my lubrisizer with BAC. We have at least 3 revolvers to test out with various loads.

[Ken in Iowa]

Cylinder throats on S&W M1917s and M1950 .45 ACPs are typically .455-.456, Colt M1917 and New Service. 45 likewise, but MkVI Webleys more often .449-.451!!! Webley cylinder throats run tight and benefit from honing by DougGuy to proper size to match groove diameter.

Thanks for the info!

My Webley Mk VI is a war trophy from my father-in-law, so I will not modify it. We shoot it on rare occasions. It appears the original .455 Webley boolit diameter spec of .454 with the heavy boolit would be great. The 454190 resembles the original sans th hollow base.

The other AR revolvers are S&W 1917s, so those are another story.

I trust we will use the 454190s mostly in the rifles with 1-2-97 metal sized .454 with BAC