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Thread: How to size necks for oversize bullets?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    How to size necks for oversize bullets?

    I have a few Mosin Nagants with bores in .314 range I'd like to shoot but that means sizing the bullet to maybe .315. I have a .311 expander for 7.62x54r but nothing larger. How does one shove a .315 bullet into a .311 case? Just jam it in there and hope for the best? Where does the bore become too big to EVER fit a cast bullet? Have to chamber cast to see what the chamber neck dimensions are? If it chambers it shoots? I have tried the jam method on a few 30-06 rounds with a .315 casting, they chamber but it is a friction fit. Not sure that's a great plan. I also BENT one bullet jamming it into the case.

    Just not sure what a good approach is. Maybe best approach is to take those big bore rifles to the next gun show and SELL them. That sure would be easier...
    Last edited by arlon; 07-14-2017 at 09:35 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Hickok's Avatar
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    Did you try a fired case with no resizing? Seat a boolit in fired case and test whether it will have enough tension to hold the boolit, and see if it will chamber.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Attachment 199646

    This is a kit I put together.
    The Lee universal flaring tool is screwed into a LNL insert, just in case it is confusing to look at.
    The top left are the two inserts that come with this tool, they only flair/bell the necks, they don't expand them the same way that the NOE inserts do. The rest of the inserts are from NOE...they actually expand the neck and flair the case mouth.

    I have been expanding the case necks .002" smaller than the diameter of the cast. That's the neck tension.

    You will have to get an accurate measurement of your chamber's neck throat and bore.

    I can't advise you on Pb blends/lubes because I PC my rounds and deliberately shoot softer Pb than recommended here.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    ^^^^^

    Do what Hickok says. If the .315 bullet slips in the case you are good to go. With several MNs I've found only a .313 or .314 sized bullet will slip in w/o force. You could turn the necks but I've also found that using a cast bullet as large as the "slip fit" will allow is about as good as it will get.

    As to sizing the 7.62x54R cases for the larger bullets (have one M1953 that takes a .316 bullet); I use a shortened Redding .284 Win bushing die with appropriate bushing to give .002 - .003 neck tension on the bullet.

    The other method is to use a Lee .308W collet die with a washer slipped over the 7.62x54R case. The case neck does not have to be sized against the .308s mandrel as I adjust the die to give the correct neck tension. Sometimes with some cases the collet must be honed out for the neck to enter the open collet so the shoulders aren't collapsed.

    I also know of one guy who honed out a 7.62x54R Lee loader to size the necks correctly.

    Be advised with any of these methods that neck thickness varies greatly so a honed out die or the wrong sized bushing may not size some necks enough.

    With the "oversize" sized necks I use the Lee Universal case expander to flair the case mouth for cast bullet seating.
    Larry Gibson

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  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    If a lot of ammo isn't needed a piece of 8mm bar stock is .3149 and a short length could be polished to size wanted. 5/16 is .3125 drill rod will be full size cold roll may be .001-.002 under sized. A allen head bolts shank ( unthreaded portion may be close also and toughened some). On some lee dies the allen head may fit in the expander as is and the shank cut and radioused to useable length making a bigger expander easily. If you need more the end can be peened up a couple thousandths by setting head on a hard solid surface and lightly tapping with a light ball peen. Check it often and go slow. I work around the edge with a 4 ounce ball peen and light taps usually 2-3 times around raises a web on the edge .001-.0015. You want to check it in the brass also as there will be some spring back when pulling over it. If you have a spare straight wall expander die the new expander can be made or purchased for it to work.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    try the lyman 31 cal long m neck sizer die. its all I use for cast boolits in that size (7.62x54,7.7 jap, 303 brit, 7.65 argentine mauser,7.62x39). it bells the case mouth, but also sizes the neck for the it's entire length. it allows less deformation of the relatively soft cast boolit during seating and aids accuracy. I have one for every caliber I shoot cast in.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I am with dogmower.
    I use the Lyman M dies for all my cast loads

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
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    Lyman M dies if you are lucky. For 'out of spec' situations I have ordered special M die expanders from Buffalo Arms or, as OS OK says, the NOE expander plugs with the Lee die body.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.p...jg6m948dsl06d4

    I have 5 of these now. Make them for pistol as well.

    Shiloh
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    LEE universal expander and NOE M die profile inserts.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by WALLNUTT View Post
    LEE universal expander and NOE M die profile inserts.
    Same here, easy to use and easy to get other sizes needed.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Never heard of the NOE expanders before but since I already have the LEE universal die, trying a few of these is probably where I'll start. Quite a selection of sizes! Thanks for all of the ideas.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I have the same situation, both my Mosins have oversized bores.
    I use the NOE 316299 sizes to .3155". I use a Lee .308 Neck sizing die with a heavy washer slipped over the case to prevent the shoulder from being bumped. My mandrel is a motorcycle bolt that I fitted, .313" if memory serves. Lee will also make you a custom mandrel. It's doable, if you have the interest in dialing it in. And, yes, NOE expanders "open up" a whole range of possibilities.
    Last edited by Boolseye; 07-22-2017 at 03:53 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Boolseye View Post
    I have the same situation, both my Mosins have oversized bores.
    I use the NOE 316299 sizes to .3155". I use a Lee .308 Neck sizing die with a heavy washer slipped over the case to prevent the shoulder from being bumped. My mandrel is a motorcycle bolt that I fitted, .313" if memory serves. Lee will also make you a custom mandrel. It's doable, if you have the interest in dialing it in.
    One thing to remember - if you have Lee make you an oversize mandrel, it won't fit through the collet sleeve, so have them furnish another collet sleeve with an oversize hole that will fit the new mandrel.
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  15. #15
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    I needed a larger sizing button for one rifle. Called RCBS, told them what I needed, and they sent a new one no charge.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Yep...what they said... Lee outer and NOE expander plugs..the only thing I can add is... throw the tapered plug away...

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    throw the tapered plug away
    They can be useful when you only need a flare

  18. #18
    Boolit Master 308Jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiloh View Post
    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.p...jg6m948dsl06d4

    I have 5 of these now. Make them for pistol as well.

    Shiloh
    NOE has everything! That's slick.

    Wish I would have known this before I bought a half dozen M dies.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    NOE expanders for every caliber with the Lee Universal flaring die body to fit them in. You can get those generally in a size that will suit your cast boolit size. Tight but without swaging your oversized cast down to fit the brass. I can sure tell the difference when loading them, very consistent feel to seating the bullet, even with different brass.
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
    Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat I do trade a bit from time to time.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 308Jeff View Post
    NOE has everything! That's slick.

    Wish I would have known this before I bought a half dozen M dies.
    Amen...

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