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Thread: Mauser calibers versus modern

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    I remember an article on a one off Mauser takedown sporting rifle prototype made in 1896 that was the daddy of the model 98 action. The action of the sporter looked very much like the later large ring M98. The extra beef in the receiver ring was originally to accommodate its interrupted thread takedown method. The cocking piece was threaded to the firing pin rather than the lug method of the 98.
    The Sporter was chambered in 8X57J with a tight bore of .318.

    With the interrupted thread takedown deleted from the design the thicker ring walls and larger diameter barrel shank was believed suited to much higher chamber pressures or a much greater margin of safety.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scharfschuetze View Post
    Well, since this thread is all over the map...
    blue 14 dog fish 22 red hamster trout.....

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    As I see it, the various ?x57mm Mauser cartridges are all quite good. the venerable 5.6, 6.5, 7, 8 and 9mm rounds are still excellent cartridges. Heck any of the various calibers made over the years are still good to go even today. Most of the new cartridges are all marketing ploys and gambits made by the different companies over the years. But people like to think there is the "holy grail" to chase when it comes to cartridges.

    As for the gewehr 1888 rifles. After 1895 most rifles were regrooved to use a .323 diameter bullet. After 1903 the rifles were rechambered to use the newer 7.92x57JS 150 grain pointed bullet. Thus most of the rifles were converted to fire the 7.92x57JS cartridge. The rifles were used in WWII with the second line military units and with some of their ally forces too. They put a large "S" mark on the receiver if the rifle was converted to shoot the JS cartridges.

    But with that said, it may be wise to not load and fire hot loaded rounds in the rifles as the designers at the time were new to smokeless propellants and the metallurgy of that era may not be up to snuff. But any of the rifles we see have likely been used and fired the full house 7.92x57js military rounds without problems. But If a rifle failed it would have done it overseas and we would never see that one for sale anywhere. So the rifles are very likely OK to use as is. But it is your call on whether you want to shoot full house 8mm Mauser rounds in one though. The new factory ammo is loaded more mild just in case though. So you would have to reload to get the stronger loads to shoot.
    Last edited by Earlwb; 08-05-2017 at 08:51 AM. Reason: typo correction

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Earlwb,

    Fwiw, one of my favorite mil-surp rifles is the Commission in "S-bore". - Those old "rearsenaled" 1888 rifles do WELL with a GCCB (or PBCB for that matter), accept the regular 8x57mm cases, are generally quite accurate & are FUN/CHEAP to shoot with cast.
    (When I've taken my old-school Commission rifle to a public range & shot it, it usually gathers a crowd, with questions. - Which I find "interesting", as I paid 25 bucks for it years ago. = The CHEAPEST rifle that I own & really "Plain Jane".)

    My usual ammo for the 1888 is 13 grains of Red Dot behind a Lyman 314299 CB. = "The Load" works WELL in any number of old mil-surp rifles.

    yours, tex
    Last edited by texasnative46; 08-04-2017 at 11:04 AM. Reason: add

  5. #45
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    texasnative46, Yes you are correct, the 1888 S bore rifles are great shooters. I still have mine too. I paid something like $29.95 for it at the time plus shipping. They sent it to my door direct too as it was made before 1899.

  6. #46
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    Earwb,

    Fwiw, I bought my 1888 from the estate sale of a former NRA Board member from VA, who brought it home from WWII in the CBI Theater.

    His @40YO son asked, "What do you want that old thing for?" but happily took my 25 bucks anyway. = I'd guess that "2 fools met that day.", as my spouse asked the exact same question when I brought "that dirty, greasy, thing" home.
    (I cleaned it up, refinished the stock with RED CHERRY Minwax & have shot a LOT of CB loads in it in the last 15+ years, too. - Likely more $$$$ for scrap lead/primers/powder than the cost of the rifle. - I've "picked up" several paper-sacks of cases at a range in southside VA for free, too. = Really CHEAP shooting.)

    yours, tex
    Last edited by texasnative46; 08-05-2017 at 06:30 PM. Reason: add

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    To All,

    At the San Antonio Gun Show this afternoon I saw THREE 1888 Commission rifles in EXCELLENT, VERY GOOD & what I would call quite ACCEPTABLE condition.

    The ACCEPTABLE rifle sold to a 15YO YM (His dad actually bought it for him.) for WT hunting for 160.oo OTD. = His FIRST deer rifle & he seemed very pleased with his rifle.
    I talked to him for a few minutes & told him about "the load" by C.E. Harris & that it is CHEAP to load with GCCB & a GOOD killer on WT out to 150M, using most any of the 8mm Mauser boolits to 200 grains.

    Note: The YM got asked the same question, by a bystander, that I frequently am asked: Is that a bolt-action shotgun?? OR, alternatively: What gauge is your shotgun??

    The EXCELLENT rifle (by Loewe) was 375.oo & the VERY GOOD one was 300.oo.
    (Obviously Commission rifles are finally becoming WANTED by shooters/hunters/collectors.)

    yours, tex
    Last edited by texasnative46; 08-05-2017 at 06:34 PM. Reason: add

  8. #48
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    I also was somewhat disappointed when the OP didn't discuss the merits and options converting Mausers to "modern cartridges".
    Actually I thought the "Mauser cartridges" were modern, but then go figure...
    I find the original chamberings to be highly efficient, accurate, and plenty of oomph to do the job on most game animals. When properly accurized they can shoot proficiently for a long, long ways.
    I will always be a Mauser shooter. They simply rock...
    re

  9. #49
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    I believe that the 6.5 x 57 in a modern action would be very competitive with the 6.5 Creedmore. I also think a .338 x 57 would be a perfect use of the available bullets rather than shooting a magnum. If you need one gun to rule them all there is always the 9 [.358] x 57.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  10. #50
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    the mauser cartridges created long range shooting, long range hunting. 6.5x55 7x57 and 8x57.
    Yet it seems that now you either give your kid a 223/243 or use a s300 win mag.

  11. #51
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    I built an 8mm Mauser 98 into a 6.5x55 hunting rifle. Couldn't ask for better. It's extremely accurate to 500 yards (the practical limit of the scope reticle), the BC is high and the recoil is modest.
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  12. #52
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    Mauser built a few (possibly only one) 5.9X57 chambered Military styled rifle for testing. I think this may have been a WW1 era project but possibly finished between the wars. Power level would have been in the .22 Savage Highpower range.

    There are several smaller bore Mauser centerfire cartridges once used in sporting rifles but now superceeded by the more commonly available modern standards.

  13. #53
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    7x57 isn't regarded to be much use these days, yet itll still perform.

  14. #54
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    Well I just returned from 10 days camel shooting and I'll give you all a tip,the 98 mauser chambered in 8x57 mauser loaded with 250grn Woodleighs,the 96 mauser chambered in 6.5x55 shooting Factory Norma 156grn tombac jacketed RN and the Mk111 Lee Enfield chambered in 303 British shooting 215grn Woodliegh RN are all very effective on large Australian varmints,eg camels.There's nothing wrong with modern calibers,except they don't really do anything the ''old'' calibers have been doing for ever.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master woodbutcher's Avatar
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    Geeeeee.Whats that old saying?Oh yeah.Whats old is new again.Had both a 7mm and an 8mm Mauser,and they would do anything that was asked of them.Let a friend that was a sniper in Viet Nam shoot both of them,and he could REALLY make those rifles talk.And like an idiot,I let both of them get away from me.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
    People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election.
    Otto von Bismarck

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Not quite, The M1888 Commission rifle which used the .318 bullet was not a Mauser. The M98 adopted by Germany is a Mauser and the 7.9 ("8x57 .323") cartridge was what it was adopted in. In 1905 the change was made from a heavier .323 RN bullet to the 150 gr Spitzer .323 bullet at increased velocity.
    Shall we confuse everything just a bit more? The "J" in "8x57 J" is actually an italicized "I" in German and it stands for Infantarie (infantry). If the designation is "8x57 JS" it stands for Infantarie Spitzgeshcoss, or infantry, pointed bullet. If it says "8x57 JSS", it stands for Infantarie Schweris Sptizgeshoss, or infantry heavy, pointed bullet.

    I know.........my spelling on those is off, but the point is correct. For years, shooters were calling 8mm Mauser the "8x57 J (jay) round".

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedbugbilly View Post
    If you're right handed, it's time to learn to shoot left handed -if you're left handed, theft's time to shoot right handed.

    I had to switch years ago due to loosing the central vision in my dominant eye - it really isn't that hard. I'm right handed I just learned to operate my bolt rifles in a different manner.

    And I'm with Larry . . . the title is a little misleading - I was expecting the same as he was .. .
    He's right, if you are right handed swap over and shoot left handed. I had to do it and after you get used to placing you feet in the right position for lefty stance , it's easy. I shoot all my long guns, even my bolt action rifles , it's not like trying to writing you name left handed and actually easy to pick up with just a little practice .
    Gary
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    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  18. #58
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    I used to practice firing the 1911A1 with my lefthand while aiming with my right eye, due to a hand injury.
    Now days the vision of my left eye is much better than that of my right so I reversed the practice by firing with the right hand while aiming with the left eye.

  19. #59
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    I thought I got the OP's point. The old Mauser chamberings had some mellow shooters like the venerable 7mm. It was on point before Jack O'Connor's .270 Winchester.

    Now I will confess if I built a rifle I just might hand stamp it .275 Rigby just to be different and nostalgic about a time period I didn't live in.

    The old cartridge designs don't give up anything/much to The current crop except in action length. Then again you have room to work as a reloaded and usually have lots of neck to enjoy. If anything is lost to whizbang new stuff it's velocity and really is the extra speed needed? If you can't reach the game with your rifle you could ahem hunt until you're in range. Most hunters have no business poking beyond 200 anyhow. Present company excluded of course, we're all crackshots here.

    I would really like a 6.5x55 or 7x57 in a full stock configuration. Those CZ 550 full stocks are neat.

  20. #60
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    I have a CZ 527 FS in .223 and I love it. I have a smaller scope mounted on it and it is very accurate out to about 225 yds. After that it drops off the table and it is tough to get a group. I would love to have one in 6.5 x 55 Sweede as I have Mauser 98/22 customized to shoot that caliber but it is a mite hefty to be dragging around in the desert to hunt anything with.

    The full stocked CZ 527 is a joy to handle and shoot and I expect that one in 7.62x39 would also be a fun gun to mess with.
    Pax Nobiscum Dan (Crash) Corrigan

    Currently casting, reloading and shooting: 223 Rem, 6.5x55 Sweede, 30 Carbine, 30-06, 30-30 WCF, 7.62x39, 327 Fed Mag, 303 Brit., 32WS, 7.92x57, 38 Spcl, 357 Mag, ,380 ACP. 9x19, 38-55 Win, 41 Mag, 44 Spcl., 44 Mag, 45 Colt, 45 ACP, 454 Casull, 457 RB for ROA and 50-90 Sharps.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check