Lyman sabot slugs

[Blood Trail]

Does anyone roll crimp them? Manual says to fold crimp. I wonder if there is a reason for fold crimping? Accuracy maybe?


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[elvas]

Yes, always. With a Gualandi clear overshot disc.

[Y-man]

I have always Roll-Crimped. Manual does not say ONLY fold-crimp [Or so I read in a post somewhere on this forum!]

[rancher1913]

I have done a bunch with roll crimp and have had no problems, always careful though because the manual does say fold only. would love to have a cronie or pressure test of the two styles to see how much different they are.

[Ford SD]

Does anyone roll crimp them? Manual says to fold crimp. I wonder if there is a reason for fold crimping? Accuracy maybe?

I have done both

Fold crimp is so much quicker

I have always used a different hull colour on my slugs BTW

[Drm50]

I had to hunt with slugs here in Ohio. Until we got rifle a couple years ago we were always looking
for the ultimate slug & slug gun. I spent a lot of money and time on slugs. Foster/ Fosters with the
Rifled grooves, Lyman Slug with both rolled and folded crimp. Even tried 12g balls. The best slugs
I loaded were Lymans loaded in Remington Brass cases with a plastic disc punched out of milk jugs
over the slug before crimping. Loaded on rifle press with RCBS dies. I shot smooth bore Brn A5
with Redding Reciever sight and off bench I could do 21/2"-5shot groups at 60yds. I know some
of the rifled guns will do better with sabots, but I didn't feel that was to shabby for smooth bore.
We shoot slugs here all year at shoots, which were mostly shot at 100', I won my share and got in
a lot of practice for deer season.

[longbow]

Funny, like everything slug related there seems to be a variety of opinions, depending on source, of what to do's and what not to do's.

BPI says that roll crimps provide more initial resistance so promote a better burn cycle than fold crimps yet I have read (in a Tom Armbrust article IIRC) that a deep fold crimp can raise pressures quite significantly. I suspect a deep roll crimp may do the same but short of having everything tested its a guess.

I just checked my Lyman manual and it lists only fold crimps for the Lyman sabot slug but lists both fold and roll crimps for several other slugs. What is notable is that in all cases (for 12 ga.) with same components the powder charge was lower with fold crimp than with roll crimp and generally the pressure was the same or similar and generally velocity was lower. So that indicates that the fold crimp is producing higher pressure than roll crimp.

An example:

- Federal 2 3/4" plastic hunting case
- 475 gr. Lyman Foster slug
- primer = Win 209
- powder = SR4756 @ 42 grs.
- one bpgs
- one 12 ga. B.P. 1/2" fiber
- two 12 ga. B.P. .125" cards
- roll crimp
- velocity = 1498
- pressure = 10,400 LUP

- Federal 2 3/4" plastic hunting case
- 475 gr. Lyman Foster slug
- primer - Win 209
- powder = SR4756 @ 40 grs.
- one bpgs
- one 12 ga. B.P. 1/2" fiber
- two 12 ga. B.P. .125" cards
- roll crimp
- velocity = 1564
- pressure = 10,200 LUP

So 2 grs. less powder (mot a lot) but higher velocity at virtually the same pressure (how does that work?)

And another:

- Federal 2 3/4" plastic hunting case
- Brenneke Slug
- Primer Win 209
- powder = SR4756 @ 36 grs.
- one bpgs
- one 12 ga. B.P. 1/2" fiber
- roll crimp
- velocity = 1532
- pressure = 10,500 LUP

- Federal 2 3/4" plastic hunting case
- Brenneke Slug
- Primer Win 209
- powder = SR4756 @ 33.5 grs.
- one bpgs
- one 12 ga. B.P. 1/2" fiber
- fold crimp
- velocity = 1457
- pressure = 9,800 LUP

This time lower velocity and lower pressure with fold crimp

Another:

- Remington Unibody SP 2 3/4" plastic case
- 475 Lyman Foster Slug
- Primer Win 209
- powder = SR4756 @ 38 grs.
- one bpgs
- one 12 ga. B.P. 1/2" fiber
- roll crimp
- velocity = 1576
- pressure = 10,400 LUP

- Remington Unibody SP 2 3/4" plastic case
- 475 Lyman Foster Slug
- Primer Win 209
- powder = SR4756 @ 35.5 grs.
- one bpgs
- one 12 ga. B.P. 1/2" fiber
- roll crimp
- velocity = 1529
- pressure = 10,500 LUP

Less powder yet almost same velocity and higher pressure with fold crimp.

Got another using Win AA hulls and 800X showing less powder but higher pressure with fold crimp but i'm tired of typing.

Seems to vary some but generally fold crimp has less powder charge and same or higher pressure according to my manual. Another slug loading mystery I guess ~ roll crimp or fold crimp" Does it matter?

Maybe I'd better get my butt in gear and try the Lyman sabot slug in my smoothbores. If Drm50 can get 2 1/2" groups at 60 yards that is good enough for me... if I can do it anyway. Surely the groups can't double in size by 100 yards can they? But even so say 5" to 6" at 100 yards would do me. I'm not real picky.

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

Yup, that's what the BPI manual says.


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[TonyfromItaly]

Goodmorning, here we mostly roll crimp slugs, lyman included. If i may say, make sure the hull is not skived or it will not put enough pressure on the slug. Fold crimping does increase the pressure and helps powder burn better. We avercome this by using faster burning powder. For example, for the Lyman slug we use powder for your 1 1/4 shot loads and increase it by 15%.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I plan on testing some roll crimped slugs to see what difference, if any, the depth/length of the crimp has on the velocity - which, of course, is related to the pressure. The loads & shells (Remington) will be identical , but the length of the shell will be 2.35" and 2.75", respectively.

[TonyfromItaly]

I plan on testing some roll crimped slugs to see what difference, if any, the depth/length of the crimp has on the velocity - which, of course, is related to the pressure. The loads & shells (Remington) will be identical , but the length of the shell will be 2.35" and 2.75", respectively.

Hello Cap'n Morgan, are Baschieri & Pellagri powders available in Denmark?

[Cap'n Morgan]

Tony.

No, the most common powders here are Norma, Vihtavuori and some Vectan powders. I have been lucky to find some Alliant powders like Unique, herco, Blue Dot and Steel, but apart from Steel they're hard to come by. Dedicated shotgun loaders are few and far between - I would say 95% of the reloaders here are loading for rifle or pistol.

[TonyfromItaly]

Cap'n, i was going to pass on a data for 470 ms and 820 bars, deadly on wild hogs. Quite a few folks here are crazy about using 800X, unfortunately it costs 69 euro for a 1 pound. Here we are lucky we have available pressure barrels to test loads for speed and pressure. Pistol powders are quite good for reloading shot and slugs as well. Nobel Sport powders available? Vectan SP8? One guy here tested a load for 500ms /1640 ft sec with gualandi 28 grams slug with acceptable pressure!

[Cap'n Morgan]

Tony.

I use Vectan AS powder for most of my slugs as I have enough of it to last me several lifetimes. I'ts great for loads in the 30-32 grams class with velocities in the 350-400 m/s range, but like all fast shotgun powders pressure will spike rapidly if you cross the threshold. For heavy slug loads at 36 gram and more I use Blue Dot.

I must admit I don't strive for speed as much as for accuracy. As long as the range is under 70 meters the trajectory is not that important and while I'm not recoil-shy I don't go looking for it.

[TonyfromItaly]

Captain, if you you can get Vectan SP8 put 2.40 grams behind the lyman slug and you will see hight velocity and lower pressure. For target shooting i agree with you. However for a hunting situation with a 100 kg wild hog, to stop it in its tracks speed is very important. 470 + ms is deadly!

[elvas]

Tony,
For even higher velocity, try Vectan SP2.

[TonyfromItaly]

Ciao Elvas, SP2 is excellent for 1 oz loads (28 g) in 28 ga. In 12 ga it is hard to make it burn with 56 grams, so i think it will not work for 34 grams slugs. It is used for supermagnum loads in 3 1/2 2 shells (12/89).

[elvas]

Try it with strong primers (CX2000, 616, 688) and you will get 300-400f/s more velocity with the Lyman sabot slug. I use it exclusively in the 12ga for every load from 32grams and up.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I plan on testing some roll crimped slugs to see what difference, if any, the depth/length of the crimp has on the velocity - which, of course, is related to the pressure. The loads & shells (Remington) will be identical , but the length of the shell will be 2.35" and 2.75", respectively.

Just finished the roll crimp test. Since it was a very basic test, with only four rounds of each length being tested, you probably shouldn't take it for more than it is, but here goes: The short shells gave an average speed of 1125 fps, where the longer shells clocked at 1150 fps (with less variation)

The test seems to indicate that the longer crimp does increase pressure a little and also give a more uniform ignition. The powder used was a fast burning Vectan AS behind a 460 grains sleeve-slug. I will probably repeat the test with one of the slower powders to see if the difference will be more destinct.

[longbow]

It will be interesting to see if there is any significant difference with slow powder. My gut feel is that the fast powder should (should have) produced higher pressures with the longer crimp. My basis for that is the short hull info I have which seems to indicate that faster powders are more sensitive to changes than slower powders.

I guess when you look at how much force it takes to open a crimp, it is a small amount compared to the force of pushing that slug out the barrel so it shouldn't raise pressure that much, just giving the powder a little more resistance at ignition.

Mind you, one of my manuals has examples of recipe/component changes that do not affect velocity much at all but pressure varied dramatically, so much higher pressure produced almost no change in velocity. The change must have created a brief pressure spike but not long enough to increase velocity.

Longbow