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Thread: Do we have room for overt sinners in our Churches?

  1. #61
    Boolit Master



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    Dear Lord

    May just one hear your words and understand.

    Amen
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCP View Post
    Taking your words if you take the Lords name in vain or use JC in a heated moment. You are a blasphemer and cant be forgiven.
    No, I said no such thing and what you said is not a logical conclusion of what I did say. Everything I said concerning the context of the passage and my understanding of it are in post #51.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    No, I said no such thing and what you said is not a logical conclusion of what I did say. Everything I said concerning the context of the passage and my understanding of it are in post #51.
    The unpardonable sin today is the state of continued unbelief. The Spirit currently convicts the unsaved world of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). To resist that conviction and willfully remain unrepentant is to “blaspheme” the Spirit. There is no pardon, either in this age or in the age to come, for a person who rejects the Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ and then dies in unbelief. The love of God is evident: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). And the choice is clear: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36).
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
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  4. #64
    Boolit Master



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    The Lord has give insight to some and to some he has not.
    Its no wonder we do not agree

    This has become a ..........................

    I think this place will not stand(Deep Theological Discussion)
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

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  5. #65
    Boolit Master

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    I'm thankfull we live in a place that we can discuss our faith openly.. even if we disagree slightly on some of the application of it.

  6. #66
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    An Unashamed Workman

    14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for [e]it will lead to further ungodliness, 17 and their [f]talk will spread like [g]gangrene

  7. #67
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by preacher jim View Post
    an unashamed workman

    14 remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of god not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. 15 be diligent to present yourself approved to god as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16 but avoid worldly and empty chatter, for [e]it will lead to further ungodliness, 17 and their [f]talk will spread like [g]gangrene
    amen!
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
    Theodore Roosevelt

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  8. #68
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    A church should be a hospital for sinners rather than a refuge for saint's. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the grace of God.".

    Sin is an interesting concept and I believe I understand what is essential Biblical sin. Not content with that, far too many preacher types, love to expand the concept and beat the drum of behavior and ignore the essence of sin which is rampant even in the most holy of churches.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  9. #69
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    The Unpardonable Sin is mentioned in Matthew 12:32. It is specially identified as "blasphemy against the Spirit." The occasion is that the Pharisees claimed Jesus used the power of Satan to drive out a demon from a man.

    After witnessing such a powerful sign that could only have come from God, the Pharisees chose to ignore it and claimed it was done through Satan. They didn't keep this idea to themselves, but they spread this lie among those who saw the miracle hoping to influence them.

    So, my opinion is that the Unpardonable Sin is speaking falsehoods against overwhelming evidence of the Holy Spirit's works claiming them to be the work of Satan in order to adversely influence people.

    I do not believe unbelief to be the Unpardonable Sin because:

    1. It is a generic state of man, why specifically mention it?
    2. Unbelief is forgivable as show time and again in the Bible.
    3. Simple unbelief doesn't fit the context of the biblical passage.
    The "unpardonable sin" in your post is such a state of spiritual blindness and moral confusion that one confuses the works of God and the works of Satan. Folks like this cannot distinguish between good and evil. It is more common than we might realize. In such a state it is impossible to repent because of the moral confusion. Lack of ability to repent equals lack of pardon. In short, it is a spiritual condition and not a word or act.

    If somebody is worried they might have done it, that is a sure sign they have not.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 07-13-2017 at 12:59 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  10. #70
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    The "unpardonable sin" in your post is such a state of spiritual blindness and moral confusion that one confuses the works of God and the works of Satan. Folks like this cannot distinguish between good and evil. It is more common than we might realize. In such a state it is impossible to repent because of the moral confusion. Lack of ability to repent equals lack of pardon. In short, it is a spiritual condition and not a word or act.

    If somebody is worried they might have done it, that is a sure sign they have not.
    I don't agree that Jesus is referring to a state of spiritual blindness and moral confusion. I believe Jesus was pinpointing a specific act.

    The Pharisees knew the works Jesus did came from God. The miracles were overwhelming proof of this. They willfully ignored this and started telling everyone Satan was responsible so the people would not believe. I firmly believe they knew what they were doing. The Pharisees were attempting to drive people from Jesus with slander. This seems clear to me looking at the verse below:

    "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."

    That's my take anyway. I agree that if you are worried about doing it, you haven't.

  11. #71
    Boolit Master claude's Avatar
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    To refuse to allow the Spirit of Your Father to speak through you in that day, at that time, that is the unpardonable sin. Back track G988 to G989 which is derived from G984 to hinder + G5345 a saying. It's really very simple, and quite frankly, cannot be committed until then. FWIW I don't believe anyone will commit that particular sin. YMMV

    (Matthew 10:19-20) "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. {20} For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

  12. #72
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    If you haven't read the Bible or done serious study, why in the world are you offering your opinion on such a serious matter?

    Overt means obvious, or visible. Overt behavior is that which can be seen and measured. Any sort of behavior that you can observe would be overt. Who here can actually say they live a sin free life? Who here should be judging anyone? I'm wondering right now how many posting on this thread are hypocrites. Who can say they don't take the name of our Lord in vane? Drink, smoke? Eyeball women? Cast judgement on others? My guess is probably none.

    I'm sorry but I don't believe its necessary to live and breathe the Bible. I personally believe if I sin and ask forgiveness I will be forgiven. I try to live a decent life but sometimes I do cuss, have a few drinks, maybe watch a racy movie, and maybe take a look at the neighbors wife in a bikini. I'm sure that all of these are considered to be sins and probably overt behavior. Having said this I should be banned from church because I did it openly where people could observe me?

    Me thinks some of you guys should take a good look in the mirror and quit trying to judge others.

    Yes, Ickisrulz I also have or maybe I should say I should have the right to an opinion.

  13. #73
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    Overt means obvious, or visible. Overt behavior is that which can be seen and measured. Any sort of behavior that you can observe would be overt. Who here can actually say they live a sin free life? Who here should be judging anyone? I'm wondering right now how many posting on this thread are hypocrites. Who can say they don't take the name of our Lord in vane? Drink, smoke? Eyeball women? Cast judgement on others? My guess is probably none.

    I'm sorry but I don't believe its necessary to live and breathe the Bible. I personally believe if I sin and ask forgiveness I will be forgiven. I try to live a decent life but sometimes I do cuss, have a few drinks, maybe watch a racy movie, and maybe take a look at the neighbors wife in a bikini. I'm sure that all of these are considered to be sins and probably overt behavior. Having said this I should be banned from church because I did it openly where people could observe me?

    Me thinks some of you guys should take a good look in the mirror and quit trying to judge others.

    Yes, Ickisrulz I also have or maybe I should say I should have the right to an opinion.
    One doesn't have to be sinless to say, "Hey brother, you shouldn't be dating that guy's wife!"

    I think the fact that the Bible expects churches to confront openly sinful Christians has been demonstrated enough for me to leave it at that.

  14. #74
    Boolit Master



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    Unpardonable Sin - Can I commit it?

    The thought of an unpardonable sin has brought grief to many people throughout history. Perhaps the guilt and fear is unnecessary. If you are afraid that you have committed the unpardonable sin, that is sure proof that you have not! Those who committed the unpardonable sin had no godly regrets. They had no interest in the forgiveness of God. Remember, Peter denied Jesus three times, yet Jesus forgave him.

    It appears that the situation of this unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit existed only while Christ was ministering on earth. The unpardonable sin, like the one in Matthew 12; cannot be committed today. We are not able to attribute to Satan the miracles of God, as performed by Jesus Christ.

    However, when people reject Jesus Christ and His gift of eternal life, they are in a sense committing the unpardonable sin of unbelief. Anyone who desires to be saved by God's grace, has not committed the unpardonable sin. However, a person who lives in rejection and unbelief until his death, will not be pardoned. This person will spend an eternity in hell apart from God. 2 Corinthians 7:10 says, "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death." Those who sincerely desire God's forgiveness will receive it! All you need to do is to believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose three days later. Then you confess and repent of your sins and ask Jesus into your life as your Lord and Savior. You are then saved by grace through faith.

    http://www.allaboutgod.com/unpardonable-sin.htm
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

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  15. #75
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCP View Post
    It appears that the situation of this unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit existed only while Christ was ministering on earth. The unpardonable sin, like the one in Matthew 12; cannot be committed today. We are not able to attribute to Satan the miracles of God, as performed by Jesus Christ.
    The sin is against the Spirit not the Son. The Holy Spirit is still on earth today doing miraculous things. Why would someone not be able commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit today just because Jesus is not the one in physical form performing miracles? This is like claiming you cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit because you are not a Pharisee.

  16. #76
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    The sin is against the Spirit not the Son. The Holy Spirit is still on earth today doing miraculous things. Why would someone not be able commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit today just because Jesus is not the one in physical form performing miracles? This is like claiming you cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit because you are not a Pharisee.
    Well we are making progress aren't we, only one point of the writing you disagreed with.

    Good for you

    Vaya con Dios
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
    Theodore Roosevelt

    NRA
    BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER

  17. #77
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    do you all remember Jesus parable in Luke 15 about a lost sheep?????
    read it study it then tell us should we go after sinners????

  18. #78
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCP View Post
    Well we are making progress aren't we, only one point of the writing you disagreed with.

    Good for you

    Vaya con Dios
    The author did not say the same things you did yesterday. The writer of your article states blasphemy "could also mean relating evil to God." So he acknowledges what actually happened on the occasion we are discussing.

    He takes it into another direction showing a similarity, "However, when people reject Jesus Christ and His gift of eternal life, they are in a sense committing the unpardonable sin of unbelief." It seems clear he does not think Jesus was identifying unbelief as the unpardonable sin, but that people who die unbelieving cannot be forgiven in the same way those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit cannot be.

    So while I don't agree with this guy 100%, he is closer to what I was saying yesterday than you were.

  19. #79
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    The author did not say the same things you did yesterday. The writer of your article states blasphemy "could also mean relating evil to God." So he acknowledges what actually happened on the occasion we are discussing.

    He takes it into another direction showing a similarity, "However, when people reject Jesus Christ and His gift of eternal life, they are in a sense committing the unpardonable sin of unbelief." It seems clear he does not think Jesus was identifying unbelief as the unpardonable sin, but that people who die unbelieving cannot be forgiven in the same way those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit cannot be.

    So while I don't agree with this guy 100%, he is closer to what I was saying yesterday than you were.
    Again good for you, Yes he says it much better that I do. Good to see we are in agreement
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
    Theodore Roosevelt

    NRA
    BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER

  20. #80
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher Jim View Post
    do you all remember Jesus parable in Luke 15 about a lost sheep?????
    read it study it then tell us should we go after sinners????
    What position are you taking and on what issue? Of course we are to spread the Gospel in an attempt to reach all sinners. But we are also to confront evil and disruptive conduct in our assemblies. These are not contradictory tasks and are both prescribed in Scripture by the same Apostle.

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