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Thread: Any other Jeepers here?

  1. #61
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoot-n-lead View Post
    A pretty narrow set of naturally occurring geographic parameters have to exist to require more than naturally aspirated engines for off-roading.
    /\ AGREED /\

    I'll go a little farther. I've never seen a situation in which a straight six, with the right gears and tires, wouldn't get the job done OFF-ROAD.
    I have seen some situations in which a little more power allowed for more civilized highway gears without unduly compromising the of-road performance.

    The ability to pick your line while driving off-road seems to be a drying art. It saddens me a bit when I see someone whose only solution to off road obstacles is wider tires and more horsepower.

    Tall skinny tires (AKA Pizza Cutters), the right gear, low end torque and a little common sense; will get you through places that horsepower and fat tires will not. The exception to the skinny tires is when operating on mud or sand that has no bottom. Sometimes you need to spread that load over a bigger footprint and a fat tire is the solution in those conditions.

  2. #62
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    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
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    If you doubt horse power is an advantage to to a mud bog race sometime. Most stock vehicles cant make it half way through the ones up here and that's even v8 stock units. You need to spin your tires to clean them out in the mud or you about instantly get slicks. Same with hill climbs. Go to one once and witness the stock 6 cyls running out of steam half way up the hill. They run out of power and slow down and start to spin. Same goes for rock climbing when you need that extra grunt to pop up over a rock. Granted a 4 or 6 cyl will get you to your hunting spot and out to watch birds but theres absolutely no doubt that more hp is an advantage when the going gets real tough. Honestly I could probably get by with my old 4.0 wrangler but the 2.5 wrangler ive got sitting in the garage runs out of power fast even for what I use it for and its about dangerous on the road. Tops out at 70 with a good tail wind on a perfectly level road. If you get behind a truck doing 50 you stay behind a truck going 50.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  3. #63
    Boolit Master
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    Racing and competition is one thing, getting from point A to Point B is another.

    A mud bog race isn't exactly analogous to reaching the back of a farm to cut firewood and I don't really want to drive that mud bog rig down the highway after I'm done with my off-road chores.
    There are work horses and show horses.

    You'll get no argument from me concerning the lack of power from the 4 cylinder TJ's. I've driven them and they are underpowered. Maybe as a coastal town Jeep than occasionally drives on the sand but never climbs a hill or needs to travel on a highway?

    I drove 2WD pickups in places that I shouldn't have and trust me, you learn how to drive off road when you DON'T have 4WD to save you. I also drove trucks with 6 cylinder engines and I drove trucks with V-8's. The 6 cylinder will never win a race but it will get the job done. The extra power of a bigger engine is nice on the highway and that's where it shines.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
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    Don't know if its proper terminology or not but we used to call it static compression. All power adders like turbos, blowers no2 add static compression but increasing the amount oxygen being compressed. to compensate for it you NEED more fuel or you go lean and detonate and in most cases if your running any kind of high boost or more then about an 200 hp no2 kit you need to lower compression and use forged piston that have a bit more strength to take the abuse and heat that detonation brings. No2 can be very safe if its tuned properly but the cheap dry and even wet systems that people just bolt on and go scare me. If I was even doing a 100hp kit id be visiting a tuner with a dyno to make darned sure I wasn't going lean at any rpm. Just reading your plugs is a poor way to gauge fuel air mixtures. If you cant get to a tuner AT LEAST run a air/fuel ratio gauge or an exhaust temp gauge or both. A throttle peddle activation switch is real smart too as you can bend rods and cranks if you turn your no2 on at to low of an rpm. Most smart guys run window switches too that shut off the no2 if fuel pressure drops for any reason. For all these reasons I'm not a fan of cheap no2 kits. Then like was said you have the hastle of getting bottles filled, keep your bottle filled and even tuning can be tricky because as you use no2 the bottle pressure drops and you make less power. So to get the best power if your going to race you about need a full bottle. I also don't like cheap kits because most don't come with a purge valve to get liquid no2 out of the lines. Liquid no2 is bad news for your motor.
    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    Your right Lloyd. Generally power adders aren't used with high compression. Using a turbo, or supercharger and even nitrous requires experience and know how. Most of the idiots out there try to run platinum spark plugs with turbo's, superchargers, and nitrous. Platinum spark plugs are a big NO NO because they DO cause detonation. The ONLY exception is the FACTORY setups like GM's Cadillac and Corvette engines for example because the computers and sensors are designed for them.

    For the record Mary.... My last toy ran low compression with a D1R Procharger making 18-20 LBS of intercooled boost. The engine featured forged pistons, premium rod bolts and main bolts, LT4 heads and intake and 60lb injectors with an FMU which gave me 120+ PSI fuel pressure under boost. I ran it one time thru the 1/4 mi. I spun thru 1st and 2nd gear and managed a 10.12@138mph going thru the traps in 5th gear. I ran 7K thru the gears with the 355. After my first run I was told to leave the drag strip and not come back until I got a cage rated for my speed in it. This car had 9's easily in its grasp but I felt my grocery getter would be too hard running around thru town with the added safety features added to it. Mary, this is what experience can do for you with 9:00-1 compression with mostly stock available Chevy parts and the mild LT4 cam.

    Using power adders like a supercharger, turbo, or nitrous is basically the same as running high compression since these power adders increase compression. I'll give you a hint.... too much compression with the nitrous. Wrong fuel blend. Wrong air fuel ratio under boost. Wrong tuning.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  5. #65
    Boolit Master


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    Lloyd,

    We always called it static compression also. I'll agree with a lot of points you have made. In todays world with for example GM's 1998 and on up computers one can add what is called a "wet" kit and the computer automatically adjusts the gas mixture to compensate for the nitrous gas. In anything computer controlled from 1997 and down GM's require a kit which consists of nitrous and gas. In todays world the air / fuel gauge is common place as is the dyno. The racing computers like I mentioned generally are piggy backed to the stock computer or in the case of the vehicle being old before the days of the computer it is run stand alone. Thes computers provide instant read outs so one can actually tune themselves with the dyno as the backup.

    Back in the late 60's early 70's sure we read the plugs to determine what the engine was doing but also went by the known charts for nitrous which were way rich gas wise and never tried to lean anything down. We didn't have air/fuel gauges back then and no computers either. We did the best with what we had and we must have done something correct becaause we didn't burn pistons or burn holes thru them.

    In todays world there is no excuse to burn holes in pistons and or break ring lands. Forged pistons are the only way to go with ANY high performance engine regardless if it has a power adder or not. Smart switches are the only way to go with nitrous systems because in addition to the wido open throttle switch the window switch won't allow the nitrous to trigger until the RPM limit has been reached.

    Nitrous with another power adder... I used a shot of nitrous on the outside of the intercooler to actually cool the intercooler to lower the internal temps to boost the power of the supercharger on one particular engine I worked on. The 75Hp shot actually provided almost that much additional power to the engine by simply lowering the inlet temp on the dyno. Near the end of having my Z-28 I was actually contemplating a 75 shot at the intercooler and a 75 shot before the throttle valve but common sense took over. You mentioned bottle temps but I don't believe you touched on over pressure in the bottle which in several instances I observed resulted in blown engines.

    The nitrous in the 428 with that compression is totally asking for nothing but trouble. Pull the nitrous off and you will probably quit burning pistons. Want to make it run? Do what I suggested and purchase a "FAST" computer with all the sensors. Beings that you have a electronics background it will be easy for you to fabricate the necessary wiring harness to hook up the sensors. Dump the aviation gas and blend a mixture of which any good tuner will be able to help with. I'll be honest here I'm not going to give out the mixture I used.

    ANY power adder will require additional Gas. Generally 10:00-1 is the absolute maximum compression ratio one should consider using a power adder with. As Lloyd mentioned and I agree 100% with is the static compression raises considerably when ANY power adder is used under boost or in the case of nitrous under injection. In my case I was right around 9-9:50-1 which required special pistons which were forged to be made and generally requires that the cylinder heads be O-ringed.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check