No. 12 Percussion Caps

[Bent Ramrod]

I regularly take a vow that as soon as I've shot up the last bunch of odds and ends of percussion caps I got a "good deal" on, that I'll permanently switch to CCI No. 11 Magnums. Inevitably, another "good deal" comes along, and I'm back to shooting up the remainders of this or that.

Recently I got another "good deal," which included several unopened cans of Remington No. 12 percussion caps. I should be able to shoot these in my Pedersoli muzzle loader, as all my shooting is at the target range and there is little danger of the cap coming off. Obviously, they would be hopeless in cap and ball revolvers, as they are too big, even with pinching the sides. They might even fit over a musket nipple, though I haven't tried one yet. If there is more priming compound in them than in a No. 11, that would be all to the good.

Does anybody know what these were for originally? I can't find anything about them On Line.

Thanks in advance.

[Fly]

In all my years of muzzle loading I have never heard of #12 percussion caps. Are those musket caps?

Fly

[Beagle333]

I have seen them for sale on vintage web sale sites, but I got no idea what they were used for.

[Bent Ramrod]

They have no wings. Just oversized cups and (one hopes) more priming compound to cover the larger diameter.

Haven't tried to fit them on a musket nipple yet.

The cans don't look that old. Standard Remington white cans with the green tape around the circumference.

I'll get a picture up when time permits.

[rancher1913]

I think maybe the colt walker used those, on mine the 11 are a little small but never knew I could get a 12

[bob208]

I have about 600 Remington umber 12. they were made back when some guns had large nipples like the walker colt. they are no hotter and they will not fit a musket nipple. they will work just fine o a side lock at the range. but I would not trust them in the field or a under hammer.

at one time they made a musket cap with out wings for use on the sharps rifles.

[bedbugbilly]

I used to use Remington #12 caps all the time when I was a kid back in the early 60's. They were the only thing I could get other than musket caps. I got my BP and caps from an old gunsmith who was in his 80s at the time and he ran a small shop - very small. While he worked on modern guns, his love was for front stuffers. He taught me how to shoot cap and ball and we used his original '51 Navy.

I used Remington #12s on the "sporting guns" that I had - several half stocks and a side by side rifle/shotgun combination - all were originals. When I got them, I changed the nipples out as most of them were pretty hammered. I got the replacements from he old gunsmith - he had quite a collection of new and used parts. All of the nipples were for#12 caps. He helped me get the old orginal nipple out of a cut down original Barnett .577 Enfield and we replaced the nipple with a new bronze ampco nipple that too #12 caps - they worked great in that rifle. I bought my first "new" muzzleloader from him - $65.00 for a Remington Zouave and I still have that rifle. The originals I used to shoot have long gone down the road.

#12 is sort of an oddity today but you have got to remember that they were fairly common in years past. When I started shooting muzzleloaders in the early 60s, there weren't as many reproduction guns like there are today. Those getting interested in muzzleloading were using originals in many cases. Musket caps were somewhat of a rarity. Alcan started producing them and if I remember correctly, Turner Kirkland (Dixie Gun Works), who was a pioneer in the resurgence of muzzleloading, put in an initial order for one million of them. I still have have a tin of them kicking around - they wren't the best caps and probably ten out of a tin of 100 either didn't go off or took a second hammer fall, but they are better than nothing. As more and more reproductions started to be made, it seems like the swing was towards #10 and #11 caps.

Like the OP, I have often said that once I got through my hodge podge of caps, I would conform to one size and stick with it. Well . . . good luck with that! LOL I still have several cans of the Remington #12s as well as some of the caps that Dixie sold in the little red tins of 100 - I hated them. The were hard and very unforgiving if the nipple wasn't the exact size. The also often required that I get my pocket knife out and pry them off the nipple after they were fired.

My first tin of Remington #12s that I bought from the old gunsmith cost me 25 cents for a tin of 100. Eventually, the price rose to 50 cents a tin. A pound of DuPont BP in any grain - 4F through 1F - was 75 cents a pound. While my friends were spending their hard earned money on new ball gloves, bats and 22 rimfire that was 50 cents for a box of 50 at the local hardware store, I was spending mine on caps and powder. When I got my Zouave, I then purchased a Lyman 575-213 minie ball mold with handles - IIRC, the total for the blocks and handles was around $35.00 shipped. My Dad wasn't happy when he found out that I had ordered it and I had given the money to my Mother and she wrote the check to send for it - he thought that we ought to be shooting and hunting with 22s and shotguns - but I was "hooked" on the BP and while in HS, began shooting N-SSA. I still have that mold and it has cast thousands of minie balls.

Hmmmm . . . . all this started with the question about Remingon #12s . .. yep, I remember them well so I guess that makes me an old fart?

[Bent Ramrod]

Thanks a lot for the info, bob208 and bedbugbilly. I'd never seen anything but No. 10s and 11s, except for musket caps.

[45 Dragoon]

They may fit some of the 2nd Gen Colt horse pistols. They come through the shop and I don't have anything to " test fire" them with.

Mike

[ian45662]

I have about 600 Remington umber 12. they were made back when some guns had large nipples like the walker colt. they are no hotter and they will not fit a musket nipple. they will work just fine o a side lock at the range. but I would not trust them in the field or a under hammer.

at one time they made a musket cap with out wings for use on the sharps rifles.

Winged caps work fine on the sharps also. I like rws and shutzen caps for the sharps and everything else that takes musket caps.


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[Battis]

From an old Colt Industries pamphlet:
"Percussion caps are now made in sizes from nine to thirteen. Ten and eleven are the best numbers for the small and medium-sized arms, and twelve for the larger sizes, although, as different-sized nipples are sometimes met in specimens of the same model, no hard and fast rule can be given. It is better to have caps slightly too large than too small, as large caps can be pinched together at the bottom enough so they will stay on the nipples, but small ones must be driven down on the nipple by the blow of the hammer, and this process frequently cushions the blow to the extent of producing a misfire."

[45 Dragoon]

Thanks Battis, I was thinking that was the case.

Mike

[Battis]

I've never seen a 13. Probably the size of a coffee cup.

[OverMax]

Don't recall seeing #12s on shelves ~ I'll bet they fit a Knight H-S nipple better than a T-c Hot Shot?

[desi23]

I have a few tins of #12 and #9 caps, had a Hopkins & Allen underhammer that came with a nipple sized for the #12 caps so bought them whenever I ran across any. Held onto a few when I foolishly traded off the gun for a different one that I thought I just had to have. The #9's were bought just because I am a pack rat. Have handled a small Derringer style pistol that would use the #9's and an original Colt pocket 31 cal revolver as well. They belonged to a friend and we tried them just to see if they fit and worked.

[bob208]

my first cap and ball pistol was a asm walker colt it used number 12 caps. bought it new in 71.

[Bent Ramrod]

Here's the picture, with No. 11s for comparison.

Attachment 199672

[mooman76]

According to a old BP book I have written by Sam Fadala, they really didn't say for certain but implied that there wasn't a real standard between companied on a size. He also stated #12s could easily be the same size as #11 depending on the company. Just like today the #11s often are slightly different. Anyway he more or less stated the different companies eventually settled on 10s and 11s not to leave out musket caps as the standard sizes.

[Chill Wills]

On page 76 of Lyman Black Powder Handbook, copyright 1975, loads for what I think is a Colt 1860 Army calls for #12 caps and FFFFg powder. There may be others but I recalled seeing them decades ago and a quick check found these.

[Chill Wills]

I've never seen a 13. Probably the size of a coffee cup.