The Truth about Glocks and Cast

[saint_iverson]

Hmm... I'm new to this thread, so forgive me if this is a tangent.

Isn't the problem with running cast through the Glock 22 not a matter of leading/explosion from the rifling, but a matter of running "reloads" through the pistol and voiding the warrantee?

In my friends Gen-1, his spent factory rounds all have extensive bulging in the base of the case due to the rounds base not being completely shrounded in the chamber. It is not a headspace issue, nor anything anomalous as this is/was expected from this particular Glock. Note that the Lee and other "Bulge buster" dies that resize the spent cases all have disclaimers on them saying that they do not guarantee brass spent from .40 Glocks due to this issue.

Perhaps with new brass this would not present as much of a problem, and I know that many members here are much more knowledgeable on the Glock flavor than I. I hope that this stirs the nest a little, but doesn'tdetract from the subject.

[thegreatdane]

Iverson, the reload/warranty issue is universal, and a gen 1 had a very unsupported chamber. As I understand it, the 40 was built directly on a 9 frame. The chamber was as result of making the new round fit.

Also, i'd like to report that I fired about 100 cast boolits tonight with zero leading and decent accuracy.

[Multigunner]

Since the lack of support at the casehead has been a long known problem with the 1911 and several other autoloaders designed to fire cartridges with much lower chamber pressures, I can't see why a manufacturer would copy this potential hazard in a fairly new design. Fairly new in that its about 1/3 as old as the classic autoloader designs.
They should have let history teach its lessons.

I can see how a generous chamber could be considered a plus if the pistol were being used in WW1 Flanders, but when the ammunition generates near magnum pressure levels a closely fitted chamber makes more sense. The loose tolerances of the Glock leaves little room for error should a cartridge have any defect in load or casing.
I've read of bullets becoming seated deeper in the case due to repeated loading and unloading of the same top round generating enough excess pressure to wreck the pistol.
Which brings up a point. Whatever handloads you assemble its wise to be sure the bullet is secure and unlikely to become jammed back into the case. Also any loaded round that seems to have become jammed up like that should be discarded or broken down at the first opportunity.
I've been told that some SuperVel 9mm Truncated cone bullet ammo had caused the same problem with Browning P-35, but with less dramatic results.
I used up a few boxes of SuperVel in my P-35 without any problems years ago, so it was likely a bad lot that didn't have enough neck tension.

[MO Fugga]

I have shot 230gr hardcast through my G20, and no problems. They say that the 230's keyhole often, but I never noticed.

[UnderDawgAl]

Been meaning to post the following for months now. My G19 RTF (late Gen 3) shoots extremely accurately with the Lee 358-105-SWC and 4.3 grains of HP-38. This is with the stock barrel.

I get some very minor leading at the breech end of the barrel, but nothing that a couple of passes of Chore Boy on a bronze brush won't quickly remove. With only a couple hundred rounds down the barrel so far, the leading might dissipate once the barrel gets broken in a little--which will take a long time because (1) I primarily shoot wheelguns at the range, and (2) my preferred semiauto for paper-punching is the BHP.

[161]

I took 3 guys to the range last Friday. Two G22s one XD ran 900 rnds in each no malfunctions no degrade in accuracy very little leading. 15 rnds. of jacketed at the end of the day and cleaning was easy. Ammo was 180 2Alpha cast 5.2 gr. WSF WW mag. primer.

[thegreatdane]

Bump Bump to report a great success

I am convinced that it can be done with careful attention to boolit SIZE (first and foremost), pressure, lube, crimp etc.

I say: don't get your head wrapped around this mess. Do everything right, monitor each aspect of the loading process very carefully, and test in small batches. This is a problem that can be solved.

...although I didn't find the rather aggressive glock twist rate in .45 to be particularly accurate... Either way, it worked.

I've successfully fired several hundred rounds in the .45, .40, 10mm, and 9mm. They all had mirrored barrels with zero leading.

[Maximumbob54]

I have been casting using the Lee TL356-124-TC and I used thinned LLA with them. They are dropping at .356-.357 somewhere in between. They don't lead at all but I only shoot a few hundred then I'm into something else at the range. I go home and clean with Hoppes #9 which isn't known for superior lead cleaning and use a bronze brush a couple of times. Never had the first problem of pressure signs, leading, or lube build up. Just good times at the range with super cheap ammo through a second gen 17.

[jbird]

I have shot several hundred lead reloads through my 2nd Gen G17. The loads are nothing special, 158gr straight WW sized to .357 & going 879 fps from a Browning HP (my standard chrono 9mm pistol). I have never even needed a bore brush to clean the bore. I just got this Glock two years ago. It used to be a range rental gun for 14 or so years. So it has had a LOT of rounds & the bore is very smooth. That might contribute to the non-leading issue.

[Sapper771]

A few weeks ago, I shot 30 rounds of my cast reloads through my G17 with factory barrel. I ran a nylon brush through the barrel to wipe out the lube fouling. NO LEADING.

Lee 120gr TC, AC WW , sized to 0.358" , and lubed with BAC.

[mongo]

I put a storm lake barrel in my Glock23 and cast a bunch of Lee 175 TC. Lubed then with 45/45/10, Sized them .401, Tumble lubed again, Loaded them over 4.7 grains 231, Used a Lee factory crimp die, Fired 200 of them with no leading at all. Life is good.. LOL Tommy

[z4lunch]

Steve here... I too would like to share the little bit I have learned.
I fell into an as new Gen 3 Glock 22 months back, and after reading all the posts about cast boolits in factory barrels, i ordered a kkm 40-9mm conversion barrel right out of the gate> I ordered the conversion to 9mm rather than a .40 because I didn't have a .40 mold or dies. At that time. My G22 shoots very accurate with cast boolits in KKM .40-9mm conversion barrel. It likes the Lyman/Ideal 356402, sized to .356. I do use a 9mm mag.
That being said, I recently purchased a vintage Ideal 40143 mold, which was designed for the 38-40. I wanted to try out the factory .40 barrel, which allegedly had four rounds thru it. Anyway...the boolits drop out of the mold at .4035 plus plus, and when I slugged the bore I was shocked when the bore measured .4015...
I had to hand lube them and I tried them as cast. The pistol shot well, and I had no leading. I was shooting very light loads of BE and the boolits where a 15-1 mix.( I don't think they need to be that hard tho) I have a .403 sizer on order for my Star, from Chris Smith.
Steven

[HDS]

We'll see in a while how well this will work out I guess.

Got a 9mm mold coming for my G17 (mihec 147 gr BB), gonna see how it works out with the factory barrel but if I have to start using really high-BHN bullets I think I will move to the aftermarket barrel instead (IGB barrel from austria). A fully supported chamber is also a nice plus.

I don't have access to any wheel weights or stuff like that so antimony is hard to get, I like to mix it 50/50 with PB. Not sure if thats possible in a 9mm but I'm hoping.

[ilcop22]

I shoot WW boolits out of my XD 45 and it works just fine. Puts neat holes in paper.

[delt167502]

FOR info only. I decided to find if cast could or could not work in a glock. First I emailed glock if they had any response to to shooting lead and if they had any ideas. I recived no response at all.(c.s.) using diffrent molds and diff. bullet weight . sizing to .356 not good even a few tumblers at 30 ' .I then cast some diffrent molds,by beagling out the dia.then sized to .357.they seem to grip the lands and work ,at least in this bbl.(slugs out at .356) 1 group measured 3" for 16 rounds at 30 ft. off a rest. I have been casting ,starting in 1963 (mostly w.w.)so it isn't like I just started and are a expert allready.

[Bwana]

delt167502,
I suggest .358". Also, in my G19, the Lee 125gr 2R boolit won't shoot small groups. Kind of funny because the 102gr 1R and SAECO 122gr #377 shoot very well as does the no longer produced Lee 150gr 38 Super boolit.
So keep tinkering and you'll get there. Welcome to the club.

[Casper29]

So we can actually settle this debate and I can sticky a thread can someone[s] chime in with facts from personal experience[s] with their Glocks and cast.

Notice I asked for facts, not hearsay, not factory advisements, etc.
For the record, I do not own a Glock and have no dog in this fight.
No digging in other's experiences for sake of an argument are needed, please keep it civil.

I have shot hundreds of cast for my 40 modle 27 4th generation and have not had any problems I keep the loads around 920 fps

[HDS]

delt167502,
I suggest .358". Also, in my G19, the Lee 125gr 2R boolit won't shoot small groups. Kind of funny because the 102gr 1R and SAECO 122gr #377 shoot very well as does the no longer produced Lee 150gr 38 Super boolit.
So keep tinkering and you'll get there. Welcome to the club.

Do you guys think it would be worth trying unsized bullets? I got a mihec 9mm 147gr mold and it drops them a .359", think that's good for a factory barrel?

[SuperBlackhawk]

I have had good luck with cast in a .40 model 23 and a 22 with factory barrel as long as I keep the loads light. If I try to push them at all I get some leading. I use a Lone Wolf barrel for my hotter loads now. Its easier on the brass too.

I also have a Glock with a Lone Wolf .40 barrel. I was thinking of trying some lead loads. Can cast bullets approach jacketed velocities and not lead?

[Moonie]

Do you guys think it would be worth trying unsized bullets? I got a mihec 9mm 147gr mold and it drops them a .359", think that's good for a factory barrel?

If they will fit the chamber loaded like that I would shoot them.