The Truth about Glocks and Cast

[yondering]

To be honest, I don't really know, it just works. It may be from impacts between the bullets during tumbling, because tumbling a bunch of bullets works a lot better than just a few at a time. I usually do about 100 at a time in a plastic yogurt or sour cream tub. Some guys put them in their vibratory tumblers, but I just shake them by hand for 20-30 seconds.

I can tell you the powder comes off the bullets very easily before baking though. You don't want to touch them with your fingers, or roll them around the screen.

[Love Life]

So much fail in one thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-750685.html

I couldn't help myself. I was researching something and came across it and thought I would give everybody a laugh.

[FergusonTO35]

I especially like this part:

There are issues specific to Glock barrels (see picture above):- Glock barrels have longer leade (space the bullet jumps from the case neck/chamber to the start of rifling) which increases high pressure gas leakage.
- Glock barrels have very smooth start of rifling with rounded rifling which allow the lead bullet to slide deeper into the barrel before sufficient chamber pressure starts to develop which further increase high pressure gas leakage.


These Glock barrel features allow more high pressure gas leakage around the bullet which results in more of the following:
- High pressure gas leakage around the bullet blows liquefied lube from the bullet and down the barrel which may increase fouling/leading build up, especially near the chamber end of the barrel.
- If high enough powder charge is not used, powder burn may be inefficient and insufficient/inconsistent chamber pressures may not deform the bullet base to allow the bullet to "skid" down the barrel and increase fouling/leading build up.

[Love Life]

I don't even argue it anymore. Whenever the issue of lead in Glocks comes up, I just tell everybody that it'll blow their gun up.

[robertbank]

The ones that are so sure lead is real bad in Glocks usually just bought a Lone Wolf barrel. Tuff to justify the expense and admit you might have just wasted a small boatload of cash. Human nature tends to be like that.

Take Care

Bob

[FergusonTO35]

I will say that I think the 1:16 twist of my Storm Lake barrel is better for boolits than the 1:9.84 of my factory barrel. I definitely get tighter groups with it so that's what I use. When fed a diet of my boolits neither one has a problem with lead buildup.

[KYCaster]

I saw another one KB Saturday. Don't know what model.......full size Gen 4, 40S&W.

Appeared to fire out of battery. The case was severely bulged all the way around and blown out at the feed ramp.....unlike others I've seen that were bulged only at the feed ramp.

Blew out the magazine which suffered minor damage to the plastic outer sleeve. Extractor was bent, ejector was bent, mag release was gone.

The round was a reload with a JHP bullet. Not enough damage to the gun to be a gross overcharge.

So it looks like the new feed ramp geometry does provide additional support, but the Gen 4's will still fire out of battery.

Jerry

[Love Life]

My gen 4 Glock 41 also has bugs. Not very happy with it right now.

[Walt]

I saw another one KB Saturday. Don't know what model.......full size Gen 4, 40S&W.

Appeared to fire out of battery. The case was severely bulged all the way around and blown out at the feed ramp.....unlike others I've seen that were bulged only at the feed ramp.

Blew out the magazine which suffered minor damage to the plastic outer sleeve. Extractor was bent, ejector was bent, mag release was gone.

The round was a reload with a JHP bullet. Not enough damage to the gun to be a gross overcharge.

So it looks like the new feed ramp geometry does provide additional support, but the Gen 4's will still fire out of battery.

Jerry

Sounds as much like an ammo problem as anything.

[KYCaster]

Sounds as much like an ammo problem as anything.

It could very well have been a case that was not sized completely which prevented it from going all the way into the chamber. No way to tell after the fact.

Even so..................if the slide isn't completely closed, the gun shouldn't fire.

Jerry

[Walt]

It could very well have been a case that was not sized completely which prevented it from going all the way into the chamber. No way to tell after the fact.

Even so..................if the slide isn't completely closed, the gun shouldn't fire.

Jerry

If we had high speed photography of the incident we would know if it were out of battery. It may have been a double charge 70,000 psi mistake. Guns do not have to be out of battery when the striker/firing pin hits the primer for a case to fail.

[robertbank]

Both the Glocks and the M&P's will drop the striker when the barrel is sloightly out of battery. I have tried it on my M&P. With the chamber empty cock the gun then ease the slide back slightly to just unlock the barrel. Pull the trigger and see if the striker will fall.

Take Care

Bob

[yondering]

Both the Glocks and the M&P's will drop the striker when the barrel is sloightly out of battery. I have tried it on my M&P. With the chamber empty cock the gun then ease the slide back slightly to just unlock the barrel. Pull the trigger and see if the striker will fall.

Take Care

Bob

On my Glocks, the barrel has to be at least halfway locked up to drop the striker. A round has to be fully chambered to allow the barrel to lock up that far. Any round that is slightly oversized, or too long, enough to prevent fully chambering, will also prevent the barrel from locking up in the slide at all, and the gun will not fire.

I'd bet what KYCaster saw was a case of a hot load or a dirty gun unlocking early, rather than firing from an unlocked condition. I've seen evidence of that in 10mm Glocks too.
A really dirty gun is the only way I know of to get the slide to stop back far enough to still fire, but not lock up the barrel completely.

[robertbank]

On my Glocks, the barrel has to be at least halfway locked up to drop the striker. A round has to be fully chambered to allow the barrel to lock up that far. Any round that is slightly oversized, or too long, enough to prevent fully chambering, will also prevent the barrel from locking up in the slide at all, and the gun will not fire.

I'd bet what KYCaster saw was a case of a hot load or a dirty gun unlocking early, rather than firing from an unlocked condition. I've seen evidence of that in 10mm Glocks too.
A really dirty gun is the only way I know of to get the slide to stop back far enough to still fire, but not lock up the barrel completely.

IN your example the gun is not locked up either way is it not?

Bob

[FergusonTO35]

Seems like the .40 caliber Glocks have more problems than the others.

[yondering]

IN your example the gun is not locked up either way is it not?

Bob

The point being even partially locked up requires the round to be fully chambered; this doesn't happen from oversized ammo that won't fully chamber.

I've seen several examples of brass deformed all the way around the base, so that it would not fully chamber, like the example above. Usually somebody points to that as proof the gun fired out of battery, but it doesn't happen that way. The brass gets that way from unlocking and extracting early, not from starting the firing process in that position.

Partial lockup does cause early unlocking though. It's just important to understand the difference, and why it can happen.

[robertbank]

No the underside of the brass at the six o'clock position would not be supported at that point.

Bob

[KYCaster]

On my Glocks, the barrel has to be at least halfway locked up to drop the striker. A round has to be fully chambered to allow the barrel to lock up that far. Any round that is slightly oversized, or too long, enough to prevent fully chambering, will also prevent the barrel from locking up in the slide at all, and the gun will not fire.

I'd bet what KYCaster saw was a case of a hot load or a dirty gun unlocking early, rather than firing from an unlocked condition. I've seen evidence of that in 10mm Glocks too.
A really dirty gun is the only way I know of to get the slide to stop back far enough to still fire, but not lock up the barrel completely.

I've see the result of double charges in several guns, including at least three Glocks. That wasn't the cause in this instance. He was loading JHP bullets (I could see that) and he said Unique was the powder. You can't get a double charge of Unique in a 40S&W case.

The definition of "out of battery" has been discussed in other threads and I'm probably using the term incorrectly to describe what happens with these failures.

The ring completely around the base of the case could have been caused by not completely sizing the case, I won't argue that. It really doesn't matter WHAT caused the condition, the fact that the gun will fire in a condition that will not contain the pressure of a normal load is the issue I have with Glock. I have not yet seen Springfield XD or a S&W M&P fail in that manner, so I don't know if they're prone to the problem or not.

Internet rumor says that the Gen4 design changes fixed any problems that Glock continues to deny the existence of, but based on what I saw, that is not true.

It really bothers me that Glock continues to sell guns with such a design flaw, continues to deny the existence of any design flaw and continues to claim the superiority of their design.....all while quietly repairing guns damaged as a result of the flaw that they deny exists.

Believe what you want, that's just the way I see it.
Jerry

[robertbank]

Well put Jerry. In my example with my own M&P's I have not nor would I try to partially unlock the barrel and pull the trigger with a loaded round in it. Just to test it ipout though I may just load a case with a primer and go to the range and see if it would ignite a primer in such a condition. I will let you know here. I have seen the result of a M&P coming apart (40Cal at an IPSC match). I think a squib followed by a round did the trick but it did look a lot like a barrel failure where S&W changed the barrel design, beefing up the area just in front of where the barrel locks up.

Take Care

Bob

[Walt]

The main problem I have with the Glock KB **** is this....when you see a picture of a S&W revolver with the top strap missing and only half a cylinder or a Colt 1911 with a mangled mag and splintered grips you never hear wow what a piece of junk. You hear what a careless handloader that guy was. There are so many Glocks in service it is amazing. There are so few M&Ps, XDs, or anything else for that matter that they get no attention. Nearly all things associated with any KB are pure conjecture. Sure Glock made a bad decision with the early 40s, that has been fixed. I own many Glocks and have many friends who do also......none of us has ever had a problem with any caliber handload in any caliber Glock. I could go on and on but.......