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Thread: The Wonder Nine Years

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    The Wonder Nine Years

    I was talking to some Millennial the other day and used the term “Wonder Nine”; he looked at me with his head tilted to one side like a confused dog. This guy was alive during the Reagan administration but likely in diapers for a portion of Reagan’s first term. I explained that the term “Wonder Nine” was coined to describe the plethora of high capacity, double action, semi-auto pistols chambered in 9mm Luger that flooded the market in the 1980’s. If you were aware of the firearms scene in the 1980’s, it was an incredible explosion of firearm’s development. The actual guns were interesting but it was the large scale developmental step that was critical. Sort of like reaching the pinnacle of piston engine aircraft design right before we moved onto jets. It was a cool time to watch what was going on in the handgun world.

    Prior to the 1980’s, full size handguns used for serious social work could be broken down into two categories: Double action revolvers and single action/single stack semi-auto pistols.
    Obviously, full sized double action pistols existed prior to the 1980’s and were deployed in significant numbers. For example the Illinois State Police started issuing the S&W Model 39 in 1968. However the overall trend in the U.S. at the beginning of the 1980’s was for DA revolvers OR a single stack/single action pistol. That trend was broken in the “Wonder Nine” years and it was broken in a big kind of way.

    Most of the development in the Wonder Nine era consisted of expanding existing technology. Double column pistol magazines existed but were generally seen in single action pistols such as the Browning Hi-Power.
    Double action pistols such as the Walther P-38 and S&W Model 39 had been available for decades.

    It was the combination of those existing technologies that took off during the era.
    There was also some innovation in the Wonder Nine era that broke with tradition and helped move everything forward. H&K had developed the first polymer pistol frame with the VP-70 but Glock took that concept and really ran with it. There’s no doubt that Glock was a game changer.

    SIG used a stamped and folded steel shell with a separate breach block to form the slide for the P220. That allowed for a lightweight, durable slide that was inexpensive to produce rapidly. That technology was utilized in the P225 (P5) and P226 as well. Speaking of SIG, the de-cocking lever used on SIG Sauer pistols was a departure from the traditional safeties used. Perhaps the biggest contribution by SIG was the method used to lock the barrel to the slide. SIG pioneered the use of a squared off ejection port that acted as the locking lug for the square cross section barrel. Yep, that now ubiquitous method of locking the barrel to the slide with the forward edge of the ejection port was a SIG design! Prior to that, most Browning short recoil designs used one or two rounded cuts inside the slide to mate with corresponding lugs on the barrel just forward of the chamber. The SIG method gave birth to ugly square cross section slides but it’s far less expensive to produce.

    Beretta took its existing designs to a new level and added features such as a firing pin block, a slide mounted de-cocking safety and a reversible magazine release in the traditional 1911 location. Those changes helped Beretta win the U.S. Military contract for the first new pistol in 75 years.

    S&W saw the writing on the wall and produced the second generation semi-auto pistols followed by the third gen pistols. For a while it looked like S&W was releasing one new gun per week!

    The Ruger P-85 was a little late to the game but was a good value when it did arrive.

    Taurus made the PT-99 that was almost a copy of the Beretta 92 but with a frame mounted safety and a few other minor differences.

    H&K had the exotic P7M13, which was a double stack version of the P7M8 pistol. The New Jersey State Police issued that unique gun for some time.

    The CZ-75 was still behind the iron curtain but a few examples made it to the west. There were some copies of the CZ that helped to spread that great design to the free world before the collapse of the Soviet Union. When the time came, the CZ was well received.

    By the time the 1990’s arrived there had been a quantum leap forward in the U.S. handgun market. Law enforcement had embraced the semi-auto pistol and the reign of the DA revolver was on the decline. The U.S. military had adopted the Beretta M9. The civilian market consumed every “Wonder Nine” that was offered and the demand only increased.

    Not all of the Wonder Nine era pistols survive in production to this day but the era was a quantum leap forward in a market that had remained fairly stagnant for decades.
    It may be a little too soon to realize the incredible magnitude of the transitions that took place but those changes were significant. It was an AMAZING time in the history of firearms.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 07-08-2017 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Corrected SIG P5 (P225)

  2. #2
    Boolit Master lefty o's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    I was talking to some Millennial the other day and used the term “Wonder Nine”; he looked at me with his head tilted to one side like a confused dog. This guy was alive during the Reagan administration but likely in diapers for a portion of Reagan’s first term. I explained that the term “Wonder Nine” was coined to describe the plethora of high capacity, double action, semi-auto pistols chambered in 9mm Luger that flooded the market in the 1980’s. If you were aware of the firearms scene in the 1980’s, it was an incredible explosion of firearm’s development. The actual guns were interesting but it was the large scale developmental step that was critical. Sort of like reaching the pinnacle of piston engine aircraft design right before we moved onto jets. It was a cool time to watch what was going on in the handgun world.

    Prior to the 1980’s, full size handguns used for serious social work could be broken down into two categories: Double action revolvers and single action/single stack semi-auto pistols.
    Obviously, full sized double action pistols existed prior to the 1980’s and were deployed in significant numbers. For example the Illinois State Police started issuing the S&W Model 39 in 1968. However the overall trend in the U.S. at the beginning of the 1980’s was for DA revolvers OR a single stack/single action pistol. That trend was broken in the “Wonder Nine” years and it was broken in a big kind of way.
    Most of the development in the Wonder Nine era consisted of expanding existing technology. Double column pistol magazines existed but were generally seen in single action pistols such as the Browning Hi-Power.
    Double action pistols such as the Walther P-38 and S&W Model 39 had been available for decades.
    It was the combination of those existing technologies that took off during the era.
    There was also some innovation in the Wonder Nine era that broke with tradition and helped move everything forward. H&K had developed the first polymer pistol frame with the VP-70 but Glock took that concept and really ran with it. There’s no doubt that Glock was a game changer.
    SIG used a stamped and folded steel shell with a separate breach block to form the slide for the P220. That allowed for a lightweight, durable slide that was inexpensive to produce rapidly. That technology was utilized in the P228 (P5) and P226 as well. Speaking of SIG, the de-cocking lever used on SIG Sauer pistols was a departure from the traditional safeties used. Perhaps the biggest contribution by SIG was the method used to lock the barrel to the slide. SIG pioneered the use of a squared off ejection port that acted as the locking lug for the square cross section barrel. Yep, that now ubiquitous method of locking the barrel to the slide with the forward edge of the ejection port was a SIG design! Prior to that, most Browning short recoil designs used one or two rounded cuts inside the slide to mate with corresponding lugs on the barrel just forward of the chamber. The SIG method gave birth to ugly square cross section slides but it’s far less expensive to produce.
    Beretta took its existing designs to a new level and added features such as a firing pin block, a slide mounted de-cocking safety and a reversible magazine release in the traditional 1911 location. Those changes helped Beretta win the U.S. Military contract for the first new pistol in 75 years.
    S&W saw the writing on the wall and produced the second generation semi-auto pistols followed by the third gen pistols. For a while it looked like S&W was releasing one new gun per week!
    The Ruger P-85 was a little late to the game but was a good value when it did arrive.
    Taurus made the PT-99 that was almost a copy of the Beretta 92 but with a frame mounted safety and a few other minor differences.
    H&K had the exotic P7M13, which was a double stack version of the P7M8 pistol. The New Jersey State Police issued that unique gun for some time.
    The CZ-75 was still behind the iron curtain but a few examples made it to the west. There were some copies of the CZ that helped to spread that great design to the free world before the collapse of the Soviet Union. When the time came, the CZ was well received.

    By the time the 1990’s arrived there had been a quantum leap forward in the U.S. handgun market. Law enforcement had embraced the semi-auto pistol and the reign of the DA revolver was on the decline. The U.S. military had adopted the Beretta M9. The civilian market consumed every “Wonder Nine” that was offered and the demand only increased.

    Not all of the Wonder Nine era pistols survive in production to this day but the era was a quantum leap forward in a market that had remained fairly stagnant for decades.
    It may be a little too soon to realize the incredible magnitude of the transitions that took place but those changes were significant. It was an AMAZING time in the history of firearms.
    prior to the 1980's this was the wonder 9, double stack 13rnds, and all metal.Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
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    Joe Foster developed the Model 39 for the Air Force, but they didn't adopt it, so it was released to the public. In the early 1970's, he developed the Model 59 for police use, and it was the first double action/single action double stack 9mm to go into common use in law enforcement. In between those two, Joe developed the Model 52 for Bullseye shooters.

    I was rangemaster for our department (600 sworn officers) from early 1977 to late 1979, when I promoted to Sergeant. We had purchased about 400 of the Model 59's in about 1974 or '75 to augment our Model 19's, and the Deputies were given their choice. About half the department were issued the 59's if they chose to, and that ratio stayed true during my tenure as rangemaster. The 59's were never as accurate as the 19's, and I made several Deputies switch back to carrying the Model 19, simply because they couldn't shoot a qualifying score with the 59, but could with the 19. We shot to 50 yards in those days, and the 59 was never a 50 yard pistol....

    There were also ammunition issues during this time, as there wasn't a plethora of duty 9x19 ammunition available to choose from. We adopted the Winchester 100 gr. SP ammunition early on, because that was the only ammunition that would reliably feed. We then used the Speer 125 gr. RNSP for awhile. When Winchester came out with their Silvertip 9x19 ammunition, I switched the department over to that, which proved to be a good round in the shootings in which it was used, both in 9x19 and .38 Spl. +P.

    I worked across the bench from Joe Foster for two days in 1978, when S&W brought him back out of retirement to correct the feeding and extraction issues that had developed with the Model 59's. Any Model 39 or 59 extractor that has a pin mark on the front edge has the extractor that Joe redesigned, along with a stronger extractor spring. The full loop barrel bushing was also one of his improvements, along with the four legged magazine follower. I had to replace 5 parts in each of our 59's, and then fire 5 rounds through each of the three magazines issued with each pistol. I got really good at "finger firing" those pistols and anyone who heard me test firing swore I was shooting a machine gun in short 5 round bursts.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master corbinace's Avatar
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    Thank you for taking the time to type a great history lesson Gentlemen.

  5. #5
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    I dunno. . .perhaps exciting at the time, but rather "meh" in retrospect.

    The main thing that this "quantum leap forward" seemed to bring about was a 1911 renaissance of such magnitude in the mid 1990's that the ghost of John Browning would seem to have studied the Wondernines and said "Keep practicin' dudes".

    At it's core, the Wondernine movement was about putting a fat magazine on a Walther P38 or attaching a Walther P-38 trigger to a Browning lockup. We've since pretty much concluded that the DA/SA trigger is a lawyer additive that does marksmanship no favors.

    And the return of the fighting revolver similarly summons the shade of Ed McGivern, who comes to remind us that capacity is often the crutch of them what can't shoot.

    A decade of attempts to fix what wasn't broken perhaps?
    WWJMBD?

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    I dunno. . .perhaps exciting at the time, but rather "meh" in retrospect.

    The main thing that this "quantum leap forward" seemed to bring about was a 1911 renaissance of such magnitude in the mid 1990's that the ghost of John Browning would seem to have studied the Wondernines and said "Keep practicin' dudes".

    At it's core, the Wondernine movement was about putting a fat magazine on a Walther P38 or attaching a Walther P-38 trigger to a Browning lockup. We've since pretty much concluded that the DA/SA trigger is a lawyer additive that does marksmanship no favors.

    And the return of the fighting revolver similarly summons the shade of Ed McGivern, who comes to remind us that capacity is often the crutch of them what can't shoot.

    A decade of attempts to fix what wasn't broken perhaps?
    One view of the situation and I'll certainly give you that. I wouldn't characterize it as a decade of attempts to fix what wasn't broken but rather a decade that saw a rush of new designs.

    But history is history regardless of how one feels about it.

    As for the core of the "Wonder Nine" movement being about putting fat magazine in a DA/SA pistol? That was certainly a part of the movement, not sure I would classify it as the core of the movement. Some of the technology wasn't incredibly new; some of it was.
    I would submit that the "core" of the movement was the large amount of development that occurred in a short period of time. Civilized people can debate about whether or nor that change was positive, or even needed, but there's no denying it occurred.

    Glock was a game changer. Intelligent folks can respectfully debate if it was a good game changer but there's no doubt that the handgun world changed after the introduction of the Glock.
    SIG's method of locking the barrel to the slide with a squared off ejection port was a game changer. That design has been copied in dozens of types and has been widely adopted. Is it better than John Browning's dual rounded lugs? I don't know but it's certainly popular and appears to be easier to produce.
    There was a lot more to the Wonder Nine movement than fat magazines.

    CLEARLY not every shooter embraced the Wonder Nine movement. The good news is: one doesn't have to embrace it. You're free to reject all of it or parts of it. But that lack of universal acceptance doesn't change the fact that the movement occurred. I would submit that the movement advanced handgun design that had become somewhat stagnant.


    And for the record, I'm still a diehard DA revolver guy. When I do choose to shoot a pistol, it tends to be a single stack type.

    Cheers

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReloaderFred View Post
    Joe Foster developed the Model 39 for the Air Force, but they didn't adopt it, so it was released to the public. In the early 1970's, he developed the Model 59 for police use, and it was the first double action/single action double stack 9mm to go into common use in law enforcement. In between those two, Joe developed the Model 52 for Bullseye shooters.

    I was rangemaster for our department (600 sworn officers) from early 1977 to late 1979, when I promoted to Sergeant. We had purchased about 400 of the Model 59's in about 1974 or '75 to augment our Model 19's, and the Deputies were given their choice. About half the department were issued the 59's if they chose to, and that ratio stayed true during my tenure as rangemaster. The 59's were never as accurate as the 19's, and I made several Deputies switch back to carrying the Model 19, simply because they couldn't shoot a qualifying score with the 59, but could with the 19. We shot to 50 yards in those days, and the 59 was never a 50 yard pistol....

    There were also ammunition issues during this time, as there wasn't a plethora of duty 9x19 ammunition available to choose from. We adopted the Winchester 100 gr. SP ammunition early on, because that was the only ammunition that would reliably feed. We then used the Speer 125 gr. RNSP for awhile. When Winchester came out with their Silvertip 9x19 ammunition, I switched the department over to that, which proved to be a good round in the shootings in which it was used, both in 9x19 and .38 Spl. +P.

    I worked across the bench from Joe Foster for two days in 1978, when S&W brought him back out of retirement to correct the feeding and extraction issues that had developed with the Model 59's. Any Model 39 or 59 extractor that has a pin mark on the front edge has the extractor that Joe redesigned, along with a stronger extractor spring. The full loop barrel bushing was also one of his improvements, along with the four legged magazine follower. I had to replace 5 parts in each of our 59's, and then fire 5 rounds through each of the three magazines issued with each pistol. I got really good at "finger firing" those pistols and anyone who heard me test firing swore I was shooting a machine gun in short 5 round bursts.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    That WAS helpful, thank you.

    And I'll add a bit to the ammunition comments:
    You're correct, when it came to the 9mm Luger cartridge, there wasn't a lot to choose from in those days. IF your local general store/hardware store carried pistol ammunition you were usually relegated to 115 gr FMJ and 9mm ammunition in general wasn't that common.
    Hollowpoint 9mm ammo was pretty much a gun store only purchase outside of government procurement. The Federal 9BPLE round could sometimes be found for sale in commercial establishments. That was and still is, an excellent cartridge.
    Occasionally the Winchester Silvertip would be on a shelf. All of the ammunition companies offered 9mm HP loads in those days but a lot of gun stores had a limited selection of 9mm cartridges.
    I do remember seeing (and sometimes buying) large quantities of military surplus 9mm ammo. A lot of that was in those plain brown boxes marked "9mm BALL NATO". Some of that was U.S. made and some wasn't. The foreign stuff sometimes had corrosive primers.

    The ammunition situation improved greatly by the late 1980's and early 1990's.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 07-11-2017 at 09:08 PM.

  8. #8
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    I still think the H&K USP should have beat out the Berreta for the military, quick change trigger/fire groups in every imaginable configuration!
    Then the Jericho convertible 9mm .41AE, one frame, two slides, two different rounds. Almost bought one of them NIB but the .41 ammo was scarce, even then!
    Then the "one shot stop" reports and the FBI ballistics tests came out around the same time, I garnered a lot of information reading up on those and lost a lot of faith in the 9mm and the search/love affair with 10mm began for me. Just as fast as it got popular it got side swiped by the .40 short and weak. I remember S&W came out with the ammo so fast the only gun available to shoot it was the S&W 610 10mm revolver.
    It was a crazy time for sure!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    During that period I was watching events and trying to learn how to properly shoot my revolvers. The wonder nines weren't on my radar since I was interested in target accuracy, not combat use.
    The money I had, needed to go for house payments and raising my 2 daughters so revolvers I could easily reload for were my choices.
    I found the double stack nines that I got to handle were very bulky and didn't feel comfortable at all since I was used to revolvers. Combine that with 9mm ammunition that was nearly unavailable at my location, and I had a situation that was not very favorable to experimenting with new pistols.
    I own four 9mm handguns now. My choices may say something about what I think about types of handguns. I own one Beretta 92fs, one S&W 929 revolver, two 1911 pistols in 9mm.
    The Beretta gets fired every couple of months to maintain function and familiarity. It mostly sits next to my reloading table with a couple of loaded magazine with it.
    The other three get to the range quite often as they are all three quite accurate.
    Accuracy is still the name of the game for me.
    The development process during those years was interesting to observe. It seemed great strides were being taken to make really great pistols available. So many of those pistols were only available for a short time. Not so many have survived to prove the quality of their design.
    I don't know if that was due to the design or the quality of materials and workmanship. If you look back at what is still available and functioning well after all the years, you can see which designs have passed the test of time.
    Wonder nines had and still have, their place in the scheme of things. The rapid development of the many design elements brought a lot of options to the public. It is always good to reflect on how that happened and what is left from that time.
    I am looking forward to the future and whatever new developments will emerge. The development process is ongoing. New materials, new ammunition, new manufacturing methods, all have their effect on the design and quality of the available pistols. Maybe the designers will come up with something we would never have believed possible a couple of decades ago.

  10. #10
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    I remember the Jericho and the .41AE round ! It used a rebated rim that allowed it to interchange with a breach face cut for a 9mm. Not sure that was the best idea and apparently consumers agreed ! The 40 S&W killed the 41AE very quickly.

    As for the H&K USP pistol, it came too late to be included in the Army's pistol tests in 1984 and again in 1988. The USP development started in 1989 and it didn't enter production until 1993. H&K did enter a pistol in the trials, but it was the P7M13 not the USP.
    And other than the Mk23 "SOCOM" pistol by H&K which was adopted in 1996 for use by some special operators, I don't think the military wants a pistol that has a fire group that can be reconfigured. They can barely train people to use 1 fire control system on the Beretta

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    A very good recounting of that time and it's effect on firearms development. I should also like to add this was at the start of the cocaine era and the average cop was told he/she was under gunned to met the challenge. There was a "perceived" notion that a revolver with 12 on the belt or a SA autopistol were not enough to even the odds.

    Today, we look at the situation and with LEO there are more shots fired due to mag capacity, but no more hitting that there was before the wonder nine time.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

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    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
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    An interesting time, to be sure. I remember Smith & Wesson was on a "flavor of the month" program at that time, and it was hard to keep up with developments.
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


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    This is a great post with great comments by all. It took me back to my younger years. I am primarily a DA/SA man but in 1990 I bought "My first wonder nine". It was a Beretta 92FS and I still own it. It looks pretty much like new even though I've fired thousands of rounds through it. My second is a Glock 19 Gen 4 that I bought about five years ago. I enjoy them both.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    A very good recounting of that time and it's effect on firearms development. I should also like to add this was at the start of the cocaine era and the average cop was told he/she was under gunned to met the challenge. There was a "perceived" notion that a revolver with 12 on the belt or a SA autopistol were not enough to even the odds.

    Today, we look at the situation and with LEO there are more shots fired due to mag capacity, but no more hitting that there was before the wonder nine time.
    Good point. While all police officers carry guns not all police officers are "gun people". The gun savvy officers were more than content with their DA revolvers and single stack autos but they were grossly outnumbered by the officers that perceived themselves to be at a "firepower" disadvantage. It's a classic case of emotion overruling logic. There wasn't a real need but enough people "felt" there was a need to drive the trend.
    There's no doubt that the U.S. saw a huge increase in violent crime in the 1980's and early 1990's. I'm not sure if the proliferation of the Wonder Nines made the average cop desire that new high capacity pistol or if the police demand for high capacity pistols created a market for those guns that drove development. In reality, it was probably a little of both. It was also likely to be a bit symbiotic and self fulfilling. Cops wanted high capacity pistols, manufactures wanted to sell pistols, cops perceived a need because there were so many high capacity pistols on the market, and around and around we go.

    The LE trend from revolvers to pistols is rather difficult to completely define in terms of time frame. However it's fairly safe to say that it generally started in the 1980's and was about finished in the early 1990's. There are plenty of aberrations such as the Illinois State Police and the department that ReloaderFred wrote about that purchased 400 S&W model 59's in the mid 1970's.

    And it wasn't just police. The military wanted a new pistol that was compatible with the 9mm ammunition used by our European NATO allies. Civilians saw the new high capacity, DA/SA pistols and liked them. Increased violence associated with drug trafficking certainly played a role but there was demand on many fronts.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 07-11-2017 at 09:11 PM.

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    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    I remember a police officer in the small town I lived in for 43 years(population 2500 approx) liked the idea of high capacity magazines. He didn't trust the 9mm however. He carried a Para Ordinance double stack 45 acp.
    I asked him about his choice once and he said he didn't want to be under gunned when he ran into a problem. During the entire time I lived in that town, I don't know of any police officer firing his weapon on duty.
    Personally, I think he was a little paranoid but I guess you never know what you will run into. Since I moved away the town has developed a reputation as a good place to buy drugs. There have been several drug busts for both dealing and manufacturing there.
    Maybe he was right.

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    Good history lesson! In the early 70's I lived in Illinois and shot "Bullseye". We all had our favorite 1911. Some of our new members came in with the S&W 39. No one, even our best shooters, could shoot the same target with a 39 as they could with their 1911.
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    Great discourse on the "Wonder Nine(s)" and comments that followed. Having lived through that era, from the S&W 39 through Glock, and looking at current production pistols I think it's safe to say that it isn't really over. The ideas of light weight, high capacity, double action live on and have just been refined a bit.

    To me it is just as interesting to examine the course the 9mm Luger/Parabellum round has followed, from FMJ to HP urged forward by hyper velocity loadings. The original idea was, I believe, to have more rounds available, but in actual use the early issue ammunition proved relatively ineffective and led to the .40 S&W Auto, so widely adopted by law enforcement agencies as a direct replacement for the 9mm, and the plethora of newly designed and modified pistols that brought about. Interestingly, today many agencies are leaving the .40 and returning to the 9mm, as advances in bullet design and loads have increased its effectiveness to where once again a few more rounds can be designed into the pistol's capacity. I was always a .45 ACP man, but in the last few years have changed to a 9mm and have a lot of faith in it based up the analysis of actual street shootings using modern defensive loads.

    The one negative comment I can summon is that when the high capacity 9mm pistols first became general issue, it seemed to evolve with use that you'd better hit the bad guy several times to stop him. Even though the early 9mm ammo was replaced with more effective rounds the "pray and spray" mind set seems to still exist along with its collateral damage and general ineffectiveness. This usually wasn't a problem with a well placed .357 round and the knowledge that after that one you only had five more remaining, rather than 15.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I remember a police officer in the small town I lived in for 43 years(population 2500 approx) liked the idea of high capacity magazines. He didn't trust the 9mm however. He carried a Para Ordinance double stack 45 acp.
    I asked him about his choice once and he said he didn't want to be under gunned when he ran into a problem. During the entire time I lived in that town, I don't know of any police officer firing his weapon on duty.
    Personally, I think he was a little paranoid but I guess you never know what you will run into. Since I moved away the town has developed a reputation as a good place to buy drugs. There have been several drug busts for both dealing and manufacturing there.
    Maybe he was right.
    I doubt he was paranoid in the true sense of the world. I can understanding wanting to stack the desk in your favor, as much as you can, even though the danger is very very remote. There is a good Colt 45 auto about one foot from my gun hand as I key this in. The likelihood of me needed it, is far more remote than the improbably danger faced by that officer.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    I doubt he was paranoid in the true sense of the world. I can understanding wanting to stack the desk in your favor, as much as you can, even though the danger is very very remote. There is a good Colt 45 auto about one foot from my gun hand as I key this in. The likelihood of me needed it, is far more remote than the improbably danger faced by that officer.
    I understand and meant no disrespect. Everyone has their own comfort zone.
    I have a S&W model 60 loaded within easy reach as I type this as well. I am undoubtedly just as "paranoid" as he was since I still live in a small town without any serious violence in a long time.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Central Virginia
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    I don't think the guns themselves are as important as the development that occurred in a short period of time.

    It wasn't all good but it was far from bad.

    It was an interesting time.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check