My 25ACP loading fun

[Chev. William]

Today i received a refund and spent it on an order of 1000 each Cast and Lubed 'Lyman 257420 nominal 65 grain bullets from "Matts Bullets" along with an order of 1000 each Accurate Mold 311090A Heeled Inside Lube bullets for .32 Colt use.

I estimate I will have the Bullets in about two to three Weeks.

More fodder for my experiments!

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today i received Two 100 piece Bags of Jagemann .25ACP New empty Brass Cases and upon Measuring the Length of Seven, a random sample, found the Length varied from .603" to .607" with three cases at .604".

It seems the Recommended SAAMI length is .615" +0.0"/-0.020" so the range should be .595" minimum and .615" maximum with the center value being .605" for SAAMI Length.
The European CIP States a legal Maximum length of 15.55mm, or 0.61220+".

Magtech, PPU, and Fiocci (sp?) all seem to Measure close to .612" case length.

Now I guess I will Need to Measure ALL of the 200 Cases And sort them by Length first, Then see what they will need to be Trimmed at
to make common Length lots for Loading.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[RED333]

Today ?i received Two 100 piece Bags of Jagemann .25ACP New empty Brass Cases and upon Measuring the Length of Seven, a random sample, found the Length varied from .603" to .607" with three cases at .604".

It seems the Recommended SAAMI length is .615" +0.0"/-0.020" so the range should be .595" minimum and .615" maximum with the center value being .605" for SAAMI Length.
The European CIP States a legal Maximum length of 15.55mm, or 0.61220+".

Magtech, PPU, and Fiocci (sp?) all seem to Measure close to .612" case length.

Now I guess I will Need to Measure ALL of the 200 Cases And sort them by Length first, Then see what they will need to be Trimmed at
to make common Length lots for Loading.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

You got me thinking, I just went a checked my stock of 25ACP brass.
G.F.L. nickel .612, checked 6 cases all the same. These are new stock and factory primed.
W-W brass .612, checked 6 cases all the same. These are old stock and factory primed.

[Chev. William]

I completed measureing the lengths of one bag of 100 Jagemann .25ACP empty brass with the following results:
.595" through .600" zero examples.
.601" = 1 ea.
.602" = 6 ea.
.603" = 31 ea.
.604" = 32 ea.*
.605" = 5 ea.
.606" = 6 ea.
.607" = 11 ea.
.608" = 7 ea.
.609" through .615" Zero examples.

I also have some PPU and G.F.L. cases and they both measure .612" long. Found some Empty C.B.C. that seems to measure .610" to .612" over 8 sample size.*

It seems SAAMI says Length of .615" with minus .020" as the Tolerance and CIP says 15.55mm (.61220+") as the Specified length Measurement.
Since CIP is Enforced By Laws in Europe it makes sense that European ammo makers Would "Toe the Line" at .612".

I also Sent an Email to Jagemann Stamping to find out if my Measurement distribution is typical for their Product. I will post what they reply.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[RED333]

Seems Jag brass is a bit short, could be an issue if trying to keep a good group. Please let us know what the company comes back with.

[Chev. William]

I received a Telephone call This morning, Tuesday, and the Summary is:

1. They Will verify my Measurements of one Bag of their .25ACP cases against their Production Data and will consider adjusting the Trim Length closer to .612"-615" maximum lengths. It depends both on ?what their Production Tooling will Allow as adjustments and what Their QC Data shows as mean case lengths.

2. Making Longer Cases on the same tooling is Very Difficult/not Practical for them.
He did say that; yes, it may be possible with new Tooling at about $20,000 for The Tooling costs. The Decision would depend upon what the Market would buy or on a Custom order for a Production Quantity and paying the Tooling costs in addition to the cost of The product ordered.

My Impression is that they Valued my input about the present trim length and would look into possible increase in trim length mean value for their Production of .25ACP cases.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[RED333]

At least is was a positive response.

[BC38]

Any of you guys willing to sell any of your 25ACP cast bullets?
I'd like to start reloading these, but finding bullets is nearly impossible and when you do they are so expensive you might as well just buy factory ammo.

[Chev. William]

Matt's Bullets is on the Internet and is a Commercial Supplier of Cast Bullets.
He does hold, and does Cast, from a Lyman 257420 Mold and the Nominal 65 grain bullets can be sized Down to .251" if you have a Bore /Groove dimensioned Barrel of the nominal SAAMI dimensions. Obviously sizing can be adjusted to match your actual Barrel dimensions.

Hunter's Supply sells 48 and 49 grain Bullets cast for the .25ACP sizes. And They are listed on the Internet.

PPU does intermittently package their Bullets and Cases as individual components for Reloaders. I Believe Angeles Reloading Store in Pacoima, CA has some of each at the Moment. They Are also on the Internet.

C.B.C. occasionally Packages Bullets and Empty cases for Sale For Reloading also.

Once in a while Remington .25ACP Bullets Are Available.
I have not seen Any of the Winchester .25ACP bullets sold as Components for a Very Long Time.

There are also the .36 Grain Hornady bullets offered for Sale as components.

PM me with your Shipping information if you Would like some samples of my latest Purchase from Matt's Bullets.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The Nominal 65 grain Lyman #257420 Mold seems to Drop bullets Heavy. The Lubed And Sized 257420 bullets weigh between 73 and 74 Grains!

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Calculated in "QuickLOAD" for the 74 Grain Lyman 257420 sized to .251" diameter and .610" long.
In a .612" long .25ACP case at .905" +.005"/-0.0" Overall length.
A 2.0 grain Charge of Power Pistol would be a 100.6% fill (compressed) and would yield a Pmax of 25330psi @ .13" bullet travel. From a 12" barrel it gives 1062fps MV/ 185ft.lbs. ME and 87.3% Propellant Burnt.

Since My Ruger Single Eight gives about 2.1% lower than Calculated MV; it would be about 1039fps MV estimated.

NOTE: Pmax occurs While the Base of the bullet is Still Inside the Case mouth.

NOTE: This 74 grain Bullet is almost 150% of the normal 25ACP 50 grain Bullet!

Seems Like This bullet and Propellant may warrant further Investigation and Testing.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

As of Nov.18th, I Spent the Last Week Working on Clearing MALWARE out of my Home computer. Very Frustrating Work!

Also I now have on hand a Stainless Steel Used Ruger ".22 Win. Magnum" roll marked 6 shot cylinder that has been Reamed to take ".32 Colt (Long) Cartridges of .318" Diameters using a PT&G finish Chamber reamer.
The Chamber to chamber Webb measure About .145" narrowest, and Chamber to outer surface about .072" narrowest. Some of the chambers show circumferential Tool Marks sadly, but it seems Typical of reaming hardened Stainless Steel With a HSS Alloy Reamer.
Chips Just don't seem to clear well Unless A Pressure Flooding of coolant is used in a Machine Reaming Process.

As the revolver is still with my gunsmith who is fitting other used 6 shot cylinders to it, I have not fired Andy cartridges through this Cylinder yet. He will also be reaming a Blued Steel Used Ruger Cylinder to accept .32ACP semi-rimmed Cartridges for my revolver.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[RED BEAR]

Well finally took the plunge ordered every thing I will need to reload 25acp. Been wanting to for a while GAF and sons has brass 4.49 per 50 midway has jacketed hollow points 5.78 per 100.(I know that jacketed is an evil word but on a budget and can't afford mold until after holidays) can't wait that long to go shooting. We will see how it goes only thing that gives me pause is my sausage fingers and the little cases. And yes I've heard it all from all my buddies how I would be better off with a rock but none are willing to go to range I will try to catch there rocks and they catch the slugs they can even throw first. Alliant web sight shows 1.7 gr bulleye for 1040 fps not a magnum but no rock either. Plan on using as back up pocket gun.

[Chev. William]

Well finally took the plunge ordered every thing I will need to reload 25acp. Been wanting to for a while GAF and sons has brass 4.49 per 50 midway has jacketed hollow points 5.78 per 100.(I know that jacketed is an evil word but on a budget and can't afford mold until after holidays) can't wait that long to go shooting. We will see how it goes only thing that gives me pause is my sausage fingers and the little cases. And yes I've heard it all from all my buddies how I would be better off with a rock but none are willing to go to range I will try to catch there rocks and they catch the slugs they can even throw first. Alliant web sight shows 1.7 gr bulleye for 1040 fps not a magnum but no rock either. Plan on using as back up pocket gun.

Red Bear, You Might consider ordering a .251" Lee "Lube and Size" set in the future.
This will Size Your cast Bullets the Same nominal size Ans the Jacketed ones you bought.

Later, you might consider buying Lee "Lube and Size" sets in .252", .253", 255" to make available the Range of nominal .257" bullets (both Jacketed and Cast) by Swaging them down in stages. I have found Jacketed .257 Hornady #2510 bullets will Swage nicely if first Tumble lubed then run through Decreasing size Swage dies in succession. The End result is a 60 Grain Semi-jacketed Soft Flat Point Bullet that works in my .25ACP Experiments using .612" long cases and also in my "Mildcats" of Longer case dimensions.

Traffer has made and sent me some 67 Grain Swaged and Powder Coated Wad cutter/Hollow base or Hollow Point/Flat Base bullets to try As soon as I can get some more unfired .612" long .25ACP cases (of .278" body diameter preferred) so I can get comparable results to my past experiments with Heavier than nominal Bullets in this caliber.

I want the Unfired cases, which Measure .278" Diameter, to use as my Reloading dies yield .276" diameter cases after firing and Resize. Smaller diameter case gives Higher MAP upon firing, so is NOT comparable to data from Unfired cases.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[RED BEAR]

Have ordered .251 sizer for my luber sizer. Truly hate to admit this but I wount have the gun until December. Been wanting one for quite a while . going to trade some extra measuring tools for one. Retired so do not use them much anymore. Must keep at least one of every thing because dream of lathe and small mill in my garage. Not sure it will happen but keep hope alive.

[Chev. William]

Red Bear,
Keep that Dream Alive! I have been S-l-o-w-l-y getting a fire damaged Craftsman Commercial Long Bed 12 inch Lathe back into usable condition. I bought it for $300 from the Late owner of Hollywood Engineering after a shop fire dropped the roof onto it. Getting the Melted covers and roofing tar embedded with gravel off has been a Long term project. Next stage is going through the 1-1/2 horsepower 3 phase Motor and replacing the burned wiring and drive belts.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

FRUSTRATED!!!
I ordered 10 bags of PPU .25ACP New Cases (50 each per bag) from "Graf &Sons" expecting they would be like previously purchased PPU empty new cases at .612" length and .278" diameter.

They Are NOT! body diameter measures .274" and lengths of the 50 measured run from .617" to .620" !!!

Now where am I going to get some New Unfired Empty .25ACP brass that meets my needs?

Yes, i can 'expand the necks' and Trim the cases to length; but that still will leave the lower case under the size desired.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Thinking overnight on my frustrating results with the new PPU brass.
I will be able to expand the neck area and load them as "plinking rounds"; so "all is not lost".
I also will need to trim them to suitable length. i will try my Lyman Universal trimmer with a power Stem to see if it will adjust down to this Length reliably.

The Same applies to the Jagemann Brass I reported on earlier; suitable for "plinking" but not for my testing Needs.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

the winter here has been Windy, Wet, and relatively Cold compared to my local normal. so Very Little usable time in my outdoor back patio "reloading shop" with its Northerly Exposure to the weather.

Perhaps later in the season, when it is warmer out , will be better.
Chev. William

[brassrat]

Good luck Bill shame on that Hollywood fire