RepackboxInline FabricationRotoMetals2Load Data
WidenersTitan ReloadingLee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters Supply
Reloading Everything
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 37 of 37

Thread: The 30/06 Casting Plan

  1. #21
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    12
    Man oh man.

    If this forum had the like button, there would be a few of them at ever post.

    This will have too be the like button for now.


    Maybe this might be the better like for all of you.


    All of you are awesome as a new comer form the North sure feels welcome here. This means alot as I'll share alot more once things get underway.

    Life for me is the tops of the mountains all season long.


    My harvest days are long past but being in the wilds will always be part of my life, and just being there is now more than I can ask for.
    Lucky I am, and dam lucky too have good folks like you too share with in lifes adventures.

    The Rocky Mountain Range has been my best friend,,, it consumes ones soul like no other.
    It dishes out hard-ships, yet it offers kind-ness.


    Each of us have our home, I hope that everyone has the peace of it that make it worth sharing.

    My like buttons too all of you are worth sharing with.

    Big thanks from the a simple fellow from the Americas.

    Don

  2. #22
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    12
    Thanks for the Ed Harris info, looks like he calls it like it is.

    I bet he's a pretty interesting fellow as he shares his take on what he had too work with.

    Don

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    10,158
    This is probably as good a place as any to repost Ed's series of articles on loading the .30-'06, so here you go!

    .30-’06 Brass Prep For CBs and Getting Started Loading for Milsurps

    I’ve been helping CBA member Bob Mills clear out his brass accumulation. He has been hoarding ’06 brass for many years and rather than hauling it to gun shows and haggling with people who want it for nothing he is shipping me about 900 cases +/- in a 25 pound large flat rate box. We agreed on a fixed price and I’ve been buying a box a month, decapping, tumbling, sizing and swaging the primer pockets, and sorting by headstamp to accumulate 1000 round lots to prep for each of my two Winchester 54s and my Model 70 Target rifle, 03 Springfield and M1. I’ve put together smaller lots of several hundred like headstamp cases for Juniors, to get them started in vintage military bol;t matches we shoot with the '03 on the reduced SR target at 200 yards.

    By the end of the first year we came to the end of the GI brass which had noncorrosive primers. Fortunately Bob is in the high desert and even the WW2 stuff and FA stuff from the 1930s cleans up really well. I first decap in the Lee Universal decapper, then give the WW2 brass a hot soapy water wash to remove any chlorate residue in the cases. If the primer pockets are heavily fouled or show any green corrosion I clean them with a K&M uniformer in the drill press. I don’t polish them bright, but give a light tumble in untreated corncob to remove accumulated dust and range grit before sizing, and repeat another light tumble to remove the sizing lube after sizing them.

    Mouths are inside deburred by bumping them against a 3/8” ball end cutter running in the drill press, and the edges of the crimped primer pockets similarly bumped lightly to give the displaced metal somewhere to flow when fully swaged on a Dillon 600 auto swager. When subsequently resizing fired Ball M2 cases in which the primer pockets were previously swaged, I use a decapping pin holder only in the die, and don’t pull an expander button through the necks, because doing so tends to stretch the necks. Instead, I use an RCBS cast bullet neck expander which has been polished to a taper so that the top 1/8" next to the flaring taper remains .309" so that you can hand start gaschecked or bevel based cast bullets, but the rest of the plug is polished to .307 to that you get decent bullet pull when loading jacketed pulls. There should be a wee of mouth flare on the case mouths, but the seater die will form it back to a .333" cylinder.

    You asked about worn barrels with large throats... In those I’ve had good results in a variety of rifles with NOE’s version of #311299, which is a better fit in barrels which have been shot a great deal. Maximum bullet diameter which fits in a minimum .30-'06 chamber with .340" neck diameter is .313" IF you either turn case necks to 0.013" or check all cases with a tubing micrometer.

    The NOE #314299 is for use in the .303s and 7.62x54Rs, but tolerates sizing down to .312 if you must fit a worn throat. If you want only one mold which works in everything one of the '299s is a good choice. My old rattle battle Garand, my 03 Springfields and one of my Winchester 54s all have worn throat for which I size to .312”. The bore riding nose of '299 casts a full .303” which really helps in worn bores!

    You can run bullets out of wheelweights, tumble lube in LLA and load it without the GC with 6 to 8.5 grains of Bullseye (1000 to 1300 fps) or 12.5 to 13.5 grs. of #2400 (1250-1350 fps). Using a gascheck 16 grs. of #2400 will give you 1400 fps and shoots well at 200 yards in wheelweight alloy. If you have any, WST shotshell powder works really well in the range of 8 to 9 grains with #314299. When you find the sweet spot for your rifle any of these loads will shoot 2 inches at 100 yards and 4-5” at 200 yards.

    The lightest load which cycles my M1 with #314299 is 38 grs. of IMR4064, RL15 or Varget, for about 1900 fps. It is more accurate than M2 Ball. The NOE .311-155FN or Accurate 31-160H also shoot great in the Garand, but may need another grain or two to cycle if your rifle is a CMP rebuild with new, stiff springs.

    For a jacketed load to approximate M2 Ball, the 150-grain Hornady Spire Point flatbased bullets shoot well in the M1 with 49 grains of 4064, RL15 or Varget in commercial brass or 1 grain less in GI brass for about 2700 fps, which shoots to the same sight dope as Ball M2 from the CMP back to 500 yards, but is more accurate.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    10,158
    Thanks to Ed, the following cross-posted by permission:

    America's Greatest, All-Around .30-'06

    By C.E. Harris - Rev. 7-8-94

    The most popular deer camp discussion for generations has been that of the proverbial "All-Around Rifle". What would be YOUR choice if you could have only one rifle? Forget the apocalyptic, "Red Dawn" scenarios and consider only the present, and the realistic future. For me, the answer is plainly obvious. A .30-'06 bolt-action, because there's not much a skilled rifleman and handloader can't do with it.

    Some years ago I was invited with a group of gun writers to a "bring your own rifle" hunt in Texas. One of the scribes was intent on doing a survey of what the "experts who could pick anything their heart desired" did, in fact, choose. The fellow doing the survey had built his own wildcat, just for the occasion. Of the dozen or so "experts" in attendance besides our wildcatter, one was a fancier of the .270 Winchester, and the rest of the rifles in camp were all .30-'06 boltguns. Now THAT would have made an interesting article, but the wildcatter, who had embarked with other ideas, never wrote it, a shame to be sure.

    My gun rack currently holds six .30-'06 rifles, if you don't count the half-dozen or so extra barrels for my switch-barrel silhouette, target and bench rifles. My first .30-'06 was a DCM M1903A3. My second was an M1 Garand. My third was a custom Winchester Model 70 target rifle with Hart barrel and stock by Roy Dunlap. I'm sure my early exposure to highpower rifle competition, ROTC, handloading, DCM ammo, a particularly fine lot of TW54 Ball, and some even better LC63 National Match ammo had something to do with my love for the .30-'06. But, many years later, as I inspect and care for the brass I've hoarded, it still makes sense.

    The variety of factory loads in .30-'06 is greater than for any other American cartridge. When handloading options are added, the possibilities are simply staggering. To keep it simple, five classes of .30-'06 loads cover all possible uses for a rifle.

    These are: small game and gallery loads; light varmint and target loads; service rifle loads; long range loads, and big game loads. There is, understandably, some overlap, as a "service rifle" load with match-type bullet becomes a fine "big game" load, with the substitution of a hunting-type bullet.

    I recommend the .30-'06 handloader keep a limited selection of powder and bullet types which have flexibility for multiple purposes. One "reduced load" powder, one "service rifle" powder and one "long range or big game" powder will do it all. Similarly, for bullets, one light cast bullet plinker, a 160-180-gr. gas-checked target bullet, a "general purpose" 150-175-gr. jacketed hunting or match bullet, and a heavier 180-200-gr. specialized hunting or long range target bullet for the serious
    shooter round out the whole menu. Coordinate your .30-'06 component requirements within other needs when possible. This enables you to produce economical, safe, and effective ammunition without accumulating odd lots of components which cause problems for storage or disposal later. With this goal in mind, I'll describe each load class, and make some recommendations based upon my experience.

    SMALL GAME AND GALLERY loads are quiet and low-powered, intended for use at 25 yards or less. I use them for indoor target shooting, and camp meat for the pot. They are also fine for easing the transition of youngsters from a .22 rimfire to a big game rifle. Cast bullets are best for this purpose. Light, jacketed bullets may be used, but require caution, to ensure that the bullet's bore-exit is totally reliable.

    Most rifles produce 3/4" groups or less at 25 yards or in proportion to 100 yards. A few shoot ragged holes at 50 yards after load refinement. Light .32 revolver bullets can be used, but more satisfactory are heavier bullets from 130-170-grs. I cast these of soft backstop scrap, and shoot them tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, without sizing or gascheck. I use the same 155-160-grain bullets I normally use, but without the gascheck. [UPDATED- Accurate 31-160H, NOE .311-155FN, Lee C312-155-2R, RCBS 30-150FN and 30-165SIL all work well for these light loads. Typical charges for plain based loads are 5-6 grs. of Bullseye, TiteGroup, W231, WST, Red Dot, N310, Green Dot or 700-X.]

    You can safely increase these charges up to 2 grains as needed to get best accuracy, but they will lead above 1300 f.p.s. unless gaschecked. Some individual rifles with smooth barrels shoot quite well up to 7 to 8 grs. of these powders, but best accuracy is usually obtained when velocities are kept subsonic. I generally look for a velocity of 1080 +/- 30 f.p.s. These loads will usually shoot 2-1/2" to 3" groups at 100 yards using minor visual defect culls, which is OK for practice. The minimum safe load which will always exit the barrel for indoor gallery work is about 4 grs. of the above powders.

    More caution is required when assembling subsonic loads with jacketed bullets, because there is some risk of the bullet becoming lodged in the bore at near-subsonic velocities. You should not attempt to use less than 6 grs. of the above pistol or shotgun powders when loading jacketed bullets unless you check the bore after every shot and keep your hammer and ramrod handy!

    There are important safety considerations for all reduced loads. I don't recommend heavier charges with pistol powders (even though some manuals list them) unless the particular powder is bulky enough (like Red Dot), that an inadvertent double-charge fills or overflows the case so an error is immediately obvious to visual inspection. Extreme caution must be used with dense powders such as W-W231 in reduced loads, because even a double charge is hard to see with all that airspace, so an error is not apparent. If you use fast pistol or shotgun powders in reduced loads, ensure the charge is light enough that a mistaken double-load will only blow primers, rather than destroying the rifle!

    Spitzer bullets generally give poor accuracy below about 1600 f.p.s. due to inadequate gyroscopic instability, blunt round- or flat-nosed bullets are best. The 100-110-gr. .32-20, .32 H&R Magnum and .30 M1 Carbine bullets are often suggested for small game loads, but in my experience won't produce 1" groups at 50 yards, my "minute of squirrel head" accuracy criteria. Any decent .22 rimfire will shoot 1" groups at 50 yards, and a center-fire small game load should do as well, right?

    The most satisfactory jacketed bullet reduced loads are assembled using my standard 200-yard target charges used with gaschecked cast bullets. Accurate boltgun practice loads which will shoot "on" at 200 yards close to your normal 600-yd. sight dope with either 150-175 gr. pulled GI bullets or 150-200 gr. cast, gaschecked bullets are: 10-13 grs. of Red Dot, Green Dot or 700X, 14-16 grs. of #2400, 18-20 grs. of 4227 or 20-23 grs. of 4198 or [UPDATED 26-30 grs. of RL7, 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget.]

    My favorite jacketed bullets for reduced .30-06 loads are the bulk Remington 150-gr. .30-30 soft points. This is because I keep them around to load .30-30s, but they are also highly accurate at minimum velocities in the '06, and they are also suitable for mild '06 deer loads with 35 grs, of 3031 or RL-7, which approximates .30-30 ballistics.

    The 123-gr., 7.62x39 spitzer FMJ bullets give good plinking accuracy above 1600 f.p.s., using the above listed "200-yd. Target" charges.. Grouping is improved by increasing the charge, not to exceed 27 grs. of #2400 or 30 grs. of 4227 which approximates 7.62x39 ballistics. With 150-gr. .30-30 bullets, do not exceed 25 grs. of #2400, which gives 2100 f.p.s., a nice deer load for youngsters or women who elderly hunters with pacemakers who can't take the recoil of a full '06.

    "SERVICE RIFLE" loads approximate the performance, and accuracy of military "ball" or "match" ammunition for target shooting over the National Match Course. It is important that the powder charge, bullet type, and ballistic parameters not vary significantly from arsenal ammunition, in order to ensure they function as intended in semi-automatic, quasi-military arms.

    The ballistics of Ball M2 service ammunition, (2740 +/- 30 f.p.s.) with a 150-gr. spitzer, flatbased bullet are approximated in GI cases with a charge of 47.5 grs. of current Hodgdon or IMR 4895, or 50 grs. of IMR-4064, RL15 or Varget. In commercial brass these powder charges intended for GI cases may be increased 1 grain. These are fine match loads for offhand and 200 rapid in the M1 using the Sierra 155-gr. "Palma" bullets.

    Prior to the introduction of the 168-gr. Sierra MatchKing, the 125-gr. spitzer was favored for 200-yd. offhand and sitting rapid-fire stages of the National Match Course. These are highly accurate, and ideal for the reduced scale courses for use by junior shooters, to reduce costs and minimize recoil. The charges for 150-gr. bullets, listed above, function the M1 rifle and are accurate. They also make dandy woodchuck loads.

    WITH 175 SIERRA MATCHKING OR PULLED GI M72/M118 MATCH BULLETS in MILITARY BRASS with Winchester WLR primers 46 grs. of 4895; or 48 grs. of 4064, RL15 or Varget approximate .30-'06 M72 match ammunition (2640 +/- 30 f.p.s). With 168-gr. bullets, these charges may be increased 1 grain, but if the 180-grain Sierra MatchKing is used (a GREAT 600-yd. bullet for the M1) they should be REDUCED the same amount. I do not recommend slower powders or heavier bullets for the M1, because heavier charges of slower powders operate the mechanism with more force than service ammunition, and may damage the operating rod or other parts.

    You are free to use the "long-range" loads below in your Springfield or M1917, and they also work well for hunting loads in bolt- action rifles, using soft point bullets of the same weight.

    "LONG RANGE" loads are heavy target loads for bolt-action match rifles, intended for use at the 600-yard stage of the National Match Course, and for longer ranges, such as 1000 yard events.

    These loads which follow are for use in bolt-action rifles only.

    (Semi-auto and slide-action rifles should be used with the "service rifle" charges listed above).

    I consider it routine for all long-range target loads in boltguns to uniform the flash hole diameters with a No.2 long center drill, and the primer pockets, using the KLM Match-Prep tool. In addition, I neck turn all cases to 0.012" neck wall thickness, and check-weigh all cases to +/-3 grains to ensure uniform powder capacity. I used to check cases to +/- 1 grain, but while this is appropriate for a small case like a .223, in the '06 it is "measuring with micrometers while cutting with axes! Uniforming flash holes, primer pockets and neck wall concentricity gets you the most improvement. Weighing cases is only used to isolate the extremely "heavy" or "light" ones. These can still be used for load development, or for slow-fire standing stages. Don't pitch them.

    In boltguns cases should be are fire-formed in the particular rifle they will be used in, and then neck-sized only, using a Jones or Sinclair neck sizer with .330" ring or Lee collet and dead-length seater.

    It is entirely unnecessary to weigh every powder charge if you use a good powder measure and consistent technique, but you should always verify the measure setting with a scale when you set up. My favorite powders for long range loads in the .30-'06 are either IMR or Hodgdon 4350. With Hodgdon or IMR 4350 powder, using commercial cases with an average weight of 185 grs., and either Winchester WLR or Federal 210M primers, I use 56 grs. with the 180-gr. Sierra MatchKing, 54
    grs. with the 185 Lapua, or 53 grs. with the 190s at 600 yards.

    For windy days at 600 and for 1000 yards I use 52 grs. with a 200-gr. Sierra MatchKing.

    Overall cartridge length is 3.40", or adjusted to clear the lands upon chambering by 0.010" to 0.030". You should avoid "jamming" bullets into the rifling, but "jump" should not exceed 1/10 of the bullet diameter. These cartridge exceed magazine length and are intended for single-loading only. If using these charges for hunting loads with soft point bullets, to be magazine fed, reduce the charges 1-1/2 grains. Powder charges should also be reduced 1/2 grain for each 5 grain difference in average case weight to compensate for heavier military brass.

    Some people like slower powders such as 4831 for long-range loads in the .30-'06. While I have found that 58 grs. of H4831 works well with a 200-gr. bullet, it doesn't group as well for me as 4350 with the lighter 180-190-gr. bullets. Always pick the best grouper over whatever the chronograph says. If grouping is equal, for matches pick the bullet which is the better wind bucker. The 200-gr. Sierra Matchking is the best choice in .30-'06 boltguns for 1000 yards or for windy days at 600.

    "GAME LOADS" loads for deer and larger game can be based on the target charges above, with seating depth and powder charge adjustments for magazine feeding of hunting-type bullets. While heavy bullets are preferred for elk, moose or bear, the average hunter after deer will be best served with one load, which he knows well. I want my hunting loads to approximate factory ammunition, so if I run out and must buy a box somewhere, I'll not have to check my zero, and scare all the game away.

    With a 150-gr. spitzer soft-point, 52 grs. of IMR-4064, RL15 or Varget in commercial cases approximates the factory 2800 f.p;.s. velocity. With a 165-gr. boattail, 56 grs. of 4350 is a dead ringer for Federal's Premium load. With the 180-gr. Nosler Partition, 55 grs. at 3.30" overall cartridge length, in commercial brass, approximates the 180-gr. Federal Premium load. With either load reduce charges a grain if using GI cases. For larger game such as moose, elk, or bear, the "long range" loads above work well with premium big game bullets of the same weight.

    In semi-auto or slide-action .30-'06 hunting rifles the "service rifle" charges listed above should be used. These are somewhat less than maximum, and provide very satisfactory game loads with a hunting bullet of the same weight and approximate what the British in their African and Asian colonies before WW2 were called "Tropical Charges."

    Summing up, the .30-'06 is the most versatile American center-fire cartridge, and has not been improved upon. If you have leftover pistol or shotshell powders around, you can load .30-'06 practice loads with it and have a lot of fun, for not much money.

    If you keep Red Dot or 700-X around for loading skeet and trap loads for your 12-ga., or if you have #2400 or 4227 around for loading .410 skeet loads or a magnum caliber handgun, you don't need to buy another powder for reduced loads. The same is true if you keep 4198 around for your .222 Rem.

    Of all the rifle powders, 4198 is the best reduced load powder for the .30-'06, from 1300-2000 f.p.s. because it bulks up well, and is not position sensitive. If you don't load need to make minimum subsonic small game or gallery loads (4198 doesn't work for these) and you don't already have other suitable powders available, and want to buy the best rifle powder for moderately reduced rifle loads, 4198 is my recommendation.

    The "Real .30-'06 powders" for full loads are 4895, 4064, RL15, Varget and 4350. IMR-4895 replaced IMR 4676 for military ball ammunition about 1944 and was the standard propellent for military .30-'06 Ball and Match ammunition. It is adaptable to a variety of cartridges. Today's IMR4895 is a bit faster burning than the older Dupont product of the 1970s. Because it was not possible for the arsenals to load M118 7.62mm Long Range with current 4895 and stay within pressure, the military changed to RL15. If you are interested in loading only 150-155 grain bullets to approximate Ball M2 in your '06, then 4895 is still "it". BUT, if you want a more versatile powder which gives better flexibility with bullets up to 175-180 grains, either RLK15 or Varget will do it best for you, with IMR4064 also a good choice.

    Some target shooters feel that "long grain" powders like 4064 and 4350 give better grouping than "short cut" powders like 4895, which are preferred for machine loading. Even though coarser powders don't measure as well, they are highly accurate. If this is your choice, substitute 4064 or RL15 for the 4895 and you won't be disappointed. For maximum loads in .30-'06 boltguns it's hard to beat 4350. I've tried other powders, but I keep coming back to 4350, because its consistent
    and always predicable, just like my .30-'06.

    That's why I like the .30-'06. It's like an experienced old horse that always knows its way back to camp, so you can just do the job and relax. What else do you want in a rifle?

    Copyright, C. E. Harris, 1994, All Rights Reserved
    [Some reloading data updated by C.E. Harris July 4, 2017]
    Last edited by Outpost75; 07-06-2017 at 09:27 PM.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,283
    Don,
    Welcome aboard. Cast boolits is another game all together from jacketed. Lots of good advice above. Best of luck. Couple of points I'd like to cover.

    1 - Clean all the copper out of your barrel before expecting real good results from cast.
    2 - Try and get a slug measurement of your bore to determine which size should work in your gun.
    3 - Whichever mold you decide on, try and size it 0.001 or 0.002 above your measured bore size. Those store bought lead boolits are frequently undersized and that's a major factor in leading the bore.
    4 - Make sure it is lubed with a good boolit lube. Around here many work well but Ben's Red and Ben's Liquid Lube are well regarded. (I do a sizer with Ben's Red & then tumble lube with Ben's LL). Check out the voluminous info over in the lube section. If nothing else, tumble lube your store boughts in Ben's LL, stand 'em up on some wax paper to let 'em dry before use.
    5 - Flare the mouth of your case before trying to insert the boolit. Too tight (small bell) a fit will shave lead & lube.

    Best of luck. Come back often with questions. We like talking this stuff.

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    10,158
    Many people frustrate themselves trying to size bullets to groove size...

    To determine the correct bullet diameter for a rifle, the groove diameter of the barrel is NOT the determinant.

    INSTEAD you want to measure the throat, i.e. the unrifled portion of the barrel forcing cone or "ball seat" ahead of the case mouth, before the rifling starts.

    Most accurate and easiest is to do is to upset a throat slug, or as some people call it a "pound cast."

    Start with a sized case with DEAD primer in its pocket. Heat your lead pot, fill the sized case with DEAD primer plugging the flash hole, and generously overflowing the case.

    After the lead cools, clean all spilled lead off the case exterior, then file the exposed lead FLUSH to the case mouth.

    Take a piece of PURE lead buckshot or short chunk of pure lead wire and drop it into the EMPTY chamber, letting it fall into the throat of its own weight. (With very long throats you can use a longer piece of wire or a SOFT bullet with long bore-riding nose and not a long grooved section).

    Insert the lead-filled, sized dummy case and GENTLY tap it into the chamber using a piece of brass rod and dead blow hammer until you can close the breech. You are using the lead filled dummy case to force the lead slug into the ORIGIN of rifling. In short throated barrels it helps to drive the slug first into the origin of rifling, far enough to chamber the lead dummy behind it, then close the bolt and upset the slug against the lead dummy using a Brownell Squibb Rod threaded onto the end of your cleaning rod.

    Don't use a hammer! Let the weight of the rod make many light taps of the squibb rod against the slug until you get a clear "ringing" sound. It need go no farther!

    Measure is the diameter of the UNRIFLED portion of the chamber forward of the case neck BEFORE the rifling starts! Extract the dummy and GENTLY tap the lead slug out and measure it. THAT is the diameter you want to size your bullets to!

    Using Cerrosafe, etc. is more trouble because you need to compensate for shrinkage, etc.

    The upset pure, dead-lead slug method is safe, exact and straight forward!

    If you forget EVERYTHING you ever read about slugging barrels and simply cast chambers from now on, and get bullets to FIT THE THROAT you will be far happier in the long run.

    The limiting factor in safe bullet diameter is neck clearance. You MUST measure the neck diameter of the chamber on the cast. Most sporting and military chambers have enough clearance ahead of a fired case mouth that a properly upset throat slug will get you a short portion of the case mouth and its transition angle to the throat or ball seat, so that you can measure neck diameter at the mouth and throat diameter of the ball seat.

    The loaded cartridge neck diameter must be no larger than 0.0015" SMALLER than the chamber cast at that point, to ensure safe expansion for bullet release. This is absolutely essential for custom target barrels which often have tight-necked chambers which require neck-turned cases. As a general rule the largest diameter of cast bullet which chambers and extracts freely, without resistance, will shoot best.

    In a .308 Winchester target rifle with .339" tight-necked target chamber and using case necks turned to 0.012," maximum bullet diameter is determined by"

    [neck (.339")-2(neck wall thickness 0.012)] - 0.0015 = 0.3135" for a "fitted neck" in which fired cases do not require sizing, but bullets will be held by case springback only. For necked sized fixed ammo, subtract another 0.0015" or .312" IF the chamber ball seat is that large. In a new barrel chambered for jacketed bullets, probably not. Min. SAAMI throat as on the pressure test barrel is 0.3105".

    Unless you know your throat is smaller, try .310" in most .30 caliber rifles.

    If the barrel has been fired more than 2500 rounds with full power jacketed loads .311" will be better.

    After you shot a couple seasons season of highpower with your boltgun, .312" will fit just fine.

    John Ardito set all of his CBA benchrest records shooting .312" bullets in his .308 Win. and wildcat .30 cal. rifles.

    A typical Finnish M39 7.62x54 chamber the chamber neck is 0.340". Typical case mouth wall thickness of Norma or Sako commercial brass is 0.013," so .340" minus twice neck thickness (0.026") = .314", minus 0.0015 for safe expansion = .3125" max. bullet for a typical Finn chamber in an M24, M27, M28, M28/30 or M39.

    It is not unusual for WW2-era .303 British or 7.62x54 Russian and Chicom rifles to have throats as large as .316" and groove diameters of .314". If you expect anything resembling normal accuracy in your milsurp rifle you absolutely MUST cast your chamber, measure it, and then buy a mold which fits your THROAT, not the groove diameter of the barrel.

    As a general rule the largest diameter of cast bullet which chambers and extracts freely, without resistance, will shoot best.

    Use Hornady .30 cal. gaschecks, pressing them on by hand and then pushing the base of the bullet against a table edge until the gascheck is bottomed against the bullet shank. Only then size the bullet. Otherwise the GC will not be seated squarely on the base of the bullet and any hope for accuracy goes out the window.

    The Lee C312-155-2R was designed by C.E. Harris especially for the 7.62x39 but also gives good results in most .30-'06 and 7.62x54 rifles when cast 12 BHN or harder, when sized to THROAT diameter, and loaded with 16 grs. of #2400 for plinking, or 30 grs. of 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget, if you want a heavier hunting load.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  7. #27
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    12
    Looks like I'll need to back track read the above posts.

    I would of never guessed that there would be this much feed back of info for a simple 30/06.

    Yes too the boolitz slug throat thinking as I remember an older fellow from our area that would do this for his "many" 45/70's and the 45/110 if I recall,,, that was one nice looking rifle. His favourite was the smaller 70 as it offered ample target plinking on the iron targets and game harvests.

    This above info that I'm going to re-read will get me into more of the loop.


    I can see the benefits of keeping the velocities with in check, and obtaing a proper size bullet along with a quality lube too support the lead rock.


    Just like all other activities that us humans take on,,, we need it too work with in its pryamitors along with ours if we expect any kinds of half *** results... "by no means do I un-respect-fully use (half ***) in a derogatory way since I'm using it in the context of our farm Jack *** when he's half way between the barn door." Ha



    Any-who. I'm simple school of what was then, yet I like many other here have been wize too keeping pace in a changing world.
    I'm guessing we kinda half too if keeping pace with the all as we blend into the back ground better.



    Purhaps each of us pick a bit of new school too line up with old school as the both of them allow us friends of young and not 29 any more.
    These 3 not 29 year young fellows have 180 years of national TR match under their belts... They might be old school, but they can still get it done at 900 meters... Hands as smooth as glass.



    Well it's time too head too a thing called work as I take in more of the post above on re-read and learn what needs learning too up my fun game plan going forward.

    Like my friend Fred says.
    Buckle down Don.


    Our target in life is small if we look at it this way


    But once we focus on our goals things come into perspective.


    The only thing we battle once we master the tools is the storms that have not reached us.


    We will only know these forces once they bear down on us.

    Glad too share as you all share much much more in return.

    Don at some where in our Americas.
    Canada and the USA have way more in common than we do apart. Hopefully we get the chance too build on this in years to come.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,035
    If your just starting out and looking for mild plinking loads the Harris articles are great.
    So far my best loads are the Harris loads with 2400 powder. I run a Ranch Dog 165 flat nose tumble lube design bullet. Gas checked (bought several thousand hornady on sale)
    The 314299 also does well with Trailboss and 2400. I have not tried the shotgun powders yet.
    They all produce a decent if not better group than FMJ in the rifles I shoot them out of.
    For what it's worth so far all but my mosin 91/30 has been in the 1.5-2.5 moa accuracy range. Basically I look for 10 ring accuracy and find that out to 200 yards with the 16 grains of 2400 loads.
    I do run one plain based load with Trail boss out of my mosin. Great for 50 yard fruit blasting or milk jug hunting.

    I see cost is high for you up there. I have mostly Lee reloading gear for cast. Although I have bought a few custom sizers here on CB.
    Been lucky enough to get most of my molds for free or at yard sales cheap.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Don...Don't be surprised by all the feedback. The 30-06 has been around for 111 years and is still one of the best available. In late 1946 and into 1947 the American Rifleman published a series of articles on various rifle calibers. The January 1947 issue carried an article by Col. Townsend Whelen entitled "The 30-06 Is Never A Mistake". This is as true today as it was when it was penned by Col Whelen yea those many years ago.

    I have an Ed Harris file on my hard drive and I just added the above articles. I had the original 30-06 piece, but an very glad to get an updated version.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
    Shooter6br's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Warminster Pa. ( North of Filthydelphia)
    Posts
    1,806
    Accurate Mold 314299 clone. Used for American Enfield (sized .313) 2400 17.5 grains,Universal or Unique 12.5 grains gas checks Good 50 yrd loads. American Enfield groove .310 -.311

  11. #31
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Springfield, Oregon
    Posts
    3,186
    Don has a way with words....
    I wish we had more people like you around here Sir.
    Welcome aboard!
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  12. #32
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    12
    Thanks for posting the Ed Harris article "Outpost 75."

    Lots too obsorb from that write-up, and all the other posts as well.

    Ed Harris must of had some time on his side since he hasn't left much out on the sharing of information, this pound casting idea will need a bit of experimenting too get it sorted.

    Getting the proper measurement will most likely allow for the better consistency for the ammo.

    This will be the starting grounds going forward.
    Very wize too know how much spacing is at the cone where it connects too the rifle lands.

    Funny that this came up in the article as a fellow at our range that shoots bench-rest get all his custom rifle cones slightly beveled.
    He mentioned that it allows a much smoother transition of boolit too cone too happen.

    Yes that a well shot rifle cone will become smooth after many rounds, the marks-men folks noticed that their grouping improved in the 700 range,,, grouping would sometimes hold even up too 1000 too 1500 ish rounds depending on how hot the loads are.

    Mr Jury from our area is our rifle barrle builder up here for our Canadian National FTR match team.


    These folks get about 2500 ish rounds before they swap out barrles.

    The 308'a are hot too trot with 180 too 210 + grain jacketed bullets,,, these shooters are seeing 2650 ft-per second on the 180's, and 2250 too 2300's with the heavy weigths if I recall. Some shooters are maxed out while other are pretty close too Max with some lee-way...


    I can see that the barrle cone takes a beating.
    The hot hot days get those barrle temps up there as there ain't no person wize enough to even think twice about touching any of those smoking hot barrels.

    A season and a bit is about the average life time for these compitition match barrles since they get cycled quite a few time in one weekend shoot little lone every weekend as well as the off day tests for the rifle along with load development.


    The last shoot I attend way 15 shoots from 400, 800, and 900 meters, they had time to kool things down when switching staging areas...
    The hottest of hot barrels is still our TR match folks as they are allowed 1 2/2 minutes between the 15 rounds

    We could see the heat waves rolling off their barrels at firing 7 too 10. LOL.

    The word wet noodle comes too mind at firing number 15.


    Learn and share is what its all about.
    One of our sayings up here is chasing the winds as we follow the water lines of endless Mirages.

    Don

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy Low Budget Shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Texahoma
    Posts
    464
    That looks so cool!

  14. #34
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    12
    I ended up taking a short leave due to lots of things going on, but the 30/06 loads are underway pretty soon.
    I got 500 bullets ready to load.

    The learning curve is underway.

    I'm planing on teaming up with a old timer from the days of lead bullets.

    A big hats of to Outpost 75 for helping me get up to speed fast.

    Bring on the good times.

    Don

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    2,377
    Outposts75 mention of using 4350 for the 30-06 in hunting loads already comfirms what I had been doing in my 30-06 match rifles years back which were all pre '64's that had been rebarreled with Douglas barrels. 168gr smk's shot very well for a young shooter who had better eyes than he does now and toting a lot fewer pounds as well. Have used it exclusively in my 06 deer rifles with the 165 grain Nosler ballistic tip. My powder charges are slightly lower than his 54.5-55.4grs IMR 4350. In my garand 46.5-47 grs with 150 grain bullets. I perked up when he mentioned shooting cast bullets in some of the Finnish Moisin Nagant rifles. My model 27 made in 1935 has a groove diameter of .3115 all I had at the time was a .313 H&I die. First cast bullet Lyman's 314299 through that die and knew I was in trouble. Hard to push through almost harder to push out. The interior of the die had ridges that ought not to be there. Reamed it out with a .313 dia chucking reamer then polished with various grits of silicon carbide paper. Final result .3135 so went with that. 40 years later have not had the need to experiment with bullet diameters. When I lived in NY there were only a few that shot cast bullets and at the time I was the youngest of the bunch. We'd get together over some cold sodas and some great burgers and discuss whet we were doing. Saw them just before I moved to Louisiana. kinda heartbreaking as I had learned so much from them. Most of their cast bullet shooting was done with the 30-30,308 win and the 30-06 and occasionally some odd ball like the martini 577/450. Frank

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy Nick Adams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
    I ended up taking a short leave due to lots of things going on, but the 30/06 loads are underway pretty soon.
    I got 500 bullets ready to load.

    The learning curve is underway.

    I'm planing on teaming up with a old timer from the days of lead bullets.
    Load it up in an M1 Garand, and then let us know how it goes.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Foothills, NC
    Posts
    2,223
    Looking forward to seeing your results! 30-06 was my first cast caliber, and I fond success quickly following the advice of these folks. Try uploading your pictures directly to the forum so you are not subject to the whims of 3rd party hosing sites!

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check