The 30/06 Casting Plan

[Don_Parsons]

Hello too all from Western Canada Don along the Eastern Slopes of Alberta Rocky Mountains.

I had a short stint of casting bullets and mines form my black powder days, but those days are long gone.

Time has come too consider a kick at the can for my 30/06, it is for plinking paper targets and close up iron gongs,,, 16" at 100 too 200 yards.

I need too get started some where, and am hoping to try some cast 30 cal bullets before jump into this.

Please chime in as I sure thinking about giving this a go since our Canadian dollar sucks goats milk, and I'm not game too paying $40 too $60 ++ bucks for a box of 50,,, Cnd funds that is.

Fill me in if this 30/06 thing is a pipe dream, or should I find a different plinking rifle.

I'd like owning the one rifle, but I'm game too finding out if I'm kind of on or off the road with my idea.

I will not be Harvesting game with this rifle or loads as I have along road forward at learning what I forgot from many years ago.

Don

[oldblinddog]

Lyman 314299, sized 0.311" over 13.0 grs Red Dot.

[bstone5]

I use a 180 grain mold fron Lee. The bullets are powder coated and a gas check is installed. The same bullet is used for 30/06 and 308. The cast bullets are shot at low velocity with common powders. I also cast a 117 grain 30 caliber bullet and load with Trail Boss for my 10 year old grandson to shoot. All of the bullets are sized to .309 for the 30 caliber rifles.

The neck will require a flare for the cast bullets and the expander needs to fir the actual diameter of the sized cast bullet.

I also shot a 30 Herrit pistol with cast bullets using the came 117 grain cast bullet.

[Tom W.]

I have two molds, a very old Lee 160 gr single cavity and a somewhat younger Ranch Dog 160 something flat nose 2 cavity. Both are gas check models, the RD is for tumble lube and the other is for conventional lube, altho it mostly gets TL with Johnson's paste wax. I shoot these from my Ruger #1B that I had rechambered to 30/06 ai. Still use the 13 gr of Red dot with a gas check. Works great, altho I mainly use them for fire forming my brass.

[am44mag]

Lyman 314299, sized 0.311" over 13.0 grs Red Dot.

I've used 13gr of Red Dot under a Lee C312-185-1R sized to 0.309 with great results too. After lubing and putting on the gas check, the bullet weighted 195 gr

[Don_Parsons]

Thanks so much all as I appreciate "all" these ideas as I think forward.

Yes too some simple tools too getting started, and deffinatly am thinking about the gas check bulits for sure.

I'm guessing the 170gr too 180gr lead rocks would fly pretty fair from an Odd-6,,, this is not saying the 150gr wouldn't be bad either. The frugal budget plinking idea has got me paying attention as this store stuff is pretty costly at times.

A little bit of thinking as I'll get going at this with in my time frame.

Casing flare die fore-sure, I'll be visiting this thread along with many others as I browse ideas that I see what you folks are doing.

This Web Forum opens so many doors, and hopefully it teaches me more about my self in the days forward.

It will only be the matter of time as I get my program under way since I invistion saving over the long hual at something that is easy and fun too a sport that is all ready in play.

Having the one rifle is ok for now as I think things threw on this new joreny ahead.

Life is good if each of us find what pleasures it is that make it worth the while.

Pal Don from Western Canada

[guicksylver]

Pal...If you hurry over to the NOE Mold web sight you'll have an opportunity to purchase the best 30 cal mold out there bar none..(I can back this up with pictures of groups from a dozen 30 cal guns)..they are having a sale this week 20% off...the mold is the 315-175 FN (Saeco 315)..http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...ph4908namrgkk5

The Gas checked one is capable of sub 1/2" as is the plain base version out of everything from the 30-30 to the 30-06.....Dan

[Don_Parsons]

This will be the starting grounds too find out if these things work.

30 RNFP DLG BB 165 gr. .309 L $39.00/200

30 RN GC DLG 200 gr. .309L
$59.00/200 Cnd funds $$$ which is "about" half price on the USD $$$.

The practical trick for me would be try some boolits out first hand, then see if my Grin starts to expand.

I'm sure it will as I see long term savings down the road.

At least I'm getting quality control lead rocks too see first hand how they perform from the old Odd-6.

Don

[Don_Parsons]

Got lucky today as I found these made up cast boolitz ready too test drive.


165gr @ $39 Cnd funds for 200 per box ready to go.

I'll give them a try, then look for boolitz with gas checks for the next test batch.

At least I'll have fun plinking and fire forum my cases at the same time.

So my next question is,,, is there anyone down yondder that knows of Any-one that might build me some gas check 180gr'ers.

I'm across the 49th parallel above Idaho state about 280 miles north of the line.

I'm looking too try about 400 too 500 boolitz and pay for them and shipping.

Best place too start is getting my feet wet, then build onto this as I go.

Don

[Char-Gar]

It is not very difficult at all for a good 30-06 to turn in 2 MOA or less accuracy with a good gas check bullet going 1.6 to 1.9K fps. Bullet weight from 160 to 210 all do well.

Two things;

1. Be certain to clean out all the metal fouling from jacketed bullets from your barrel.
2. Those store bought plain base bullets most likely won't bring your joy. Unless you keep the velocities to around 1.2K fps or less, using small charges of fast powder like Bullseye, Unique or the like. Try and push those bullet much faster or use slower powder and things get much more difficult.

[oldblinddog]

With the plain based bullets you purchased, use 8.0 gr Red Dot. That ought to give you ~1" group at 50 yds.

[Don_Parsons]

Yes'er to low velocities for the non-gas checked boolitz.

I read some information here on another thread that the explosive charge behind the lead rock will actually melt and could deform it.

Slow low velocities is the plan.
I'm hoping someone can point me in the right directions too finding gas checked 175/ 180 boolitz either here in Canada or in the USA.

I'll keep the charges low as they will still work good for plinking.

Yes too a clean bore as I've got the Cooper remover stuff, and a bottle of lead remover coming too.

Pretty easy switching back and forth with today's cleaning agents that are easy to work with.

Pretty thrilled too get my boots wet at trying something out of the ordinary.

Case load lead rock chucking for modern cartrage is kinda coming back, I'll be one of the limited few in our area too promote this old school idea up here.

If they ask me, I'll direct them to this forum since its the go too place of info that got me here.

I'll post more in days too come, hopefully folks like you will get me up too speed on what works best as it will save me time and funds.

Thanks for sharing all as I gear up for my first ever case load cast boolit thing.

Western Canada Don

[Char-Gar]

Don...Using cast bullets in rifles was a popular thing in the US before WWII. At that time jacketed bullets were still a coming thing and there was plenty of development to do. During WWII, if you didn't shoot cast bullets you didn't reload and shoot.

Following WWII, and the returning GIs the reloading tool industry really took off. Just one step behind was the reloading component industry. Cast bullet shooting was almost left behind in the dust, being still practiced by a small group of rifle nuts and other slightly off in the head.

It was the internet that resurrected cast bullet shooting and it has expanded every since. I credit this board and a few like it with leading the charge into the brave new world of lead alloy bullets.

We need an apostle in your part of the world and it looks like you have been chosen by the red gods.

[guicksylver]

Don't want you to be disappointed with your first try with cast boolits so I am going to caution you... it will surprise me if those are not too hard and too small..you're going to be looking for (if your lucky) .310 or for most 30 cal mil surps .311....

Just looked they are .309 AND bevel based..poor choice ...little if any gas seal between the bevel base so with that and the hardness..expect leading..

Got those.. I would have sent you for the shipping...but I wouldn't do that to someone just starting to shoot cast...

Might work in a new 30-30 if kept under 1100 fps..

Try and find some commercial bullets that are gas checked and softer...bulk commercial casters make what people THINK they need and make them so they ship well..meaning hard bullets and hard lube...there was one company out here selling gas checked bullet..they aint cheap... but they won"t disappoint either

Try the ones you got.. they should be good for minute of pumpkin at 50 yds... a good cast bullet in a 30-06 should do this


Home cast Plain Base

[Outpost75]

(This article originally appeared in the Cast Bullet Association’s Fouling Shot and is used here by permission of the author).

Low Velocity .30-’06 “Guard” and “Gallery Practice” Loads Using Bullseye Powder

C.E. "Ed" Harris,

Ten years ago friends gave me several thousand pulled LC Cal. 30 Ball M2 (152-gr.FMJ) bullets and fired empty cases accumulated from CMP .30-’06 ammo which had been pulled down, removing the GI bullets and replacing them with Sierra 155-gr. Palmas over the original powder charge. I was offered half of the fired brass and all the pulled bullets to use my Dillon Auto-Swage 600 to rework the brass and work up a load suitable for Junior training and rapid-fire practice at 100 yards in 03A3 Springfields being used as Appleseed trainers. An article in Rifle Magazine, March-April 1990, by Jeffrey W. Houck, p49 was our stimulus for doing this this.

Reduced power gallery and guard cartridges were developed for use in the M1903 Springfield on urban installations where full power ammunition posed a risk of collateral damage if fired in anger. The M1906 Guard cartridge used a reduced charge of Bullseye powder with the M1906 150-gr. FMJ service bullet and was identified by 6 flutes indented into the shoulder of the cartridge case. Its accuracy was equal to normal Ball ammunition at ranges up to 200 yards and it shot approximately to point of aim at 100 yards using the fixed battle sight of the folded down ladder on the M1903 Springfield. At 200 yards the Guard cartridge required an rear sight elevation of 650 yards on the elevation slide.

Initial experiments sought a subsonic load for minimum noise, but 100-yard groups with pulled M2 Ball jacketed bullets loaded subsonic weren’t not as good as when they were driven a bit faster. Nor was there any benefit to using pistol primers, case fillers or enlarged flash holes with Bullseye powder in .30-’06 gallery loads. Once-fired LC69 military cases were full length resized; primer pockets swaged, trimmed to length and primed with standard Winchester Large Rifle primers.

After some experimentation we settled on 8 grains of Alliant Bullseye as the best compromise with the pulled Ball M2 150-grain jacketed bullets. Bullets were seated to the cannelure and lightly crimped using the Lee Factory Crimp die. Velocity from my 22" Mauser sporter was 1080 f.p.s. and from a Sako A2 with 24” Douglas Premium barrel with tight-necked target chamber and SAAMI throat 1160 f.p.s. Report and recoil are mild, like shooting a .32-20.

The average of five consecutive 5-shot groups fired at 50 yards from the Mauser sporter with 4X hunting scope was 1.2 inches. The heavy barrel Sako with 10X scope averaged an inch at 50 yards. Point of impact at 50 yards was 3.5" below Ball M2, so the duplex reticule could be used a short-range post, without changing a hunting zero with 180-gr. ammunition.

Firing at 100 yards, the Mauser struck much lower, and required re-zeroing, but accuracy was averaged 2.6” for ten consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yards, which compares with Ball M2 ammunition. The Sako with 10X scope averaged 2” for ten consecutive 5-shot groups, which is also typical of M2 Ball ammunition when fired in that rifle.

We also tested cast bullets, from the HM2 mold of my design, loaded without a gascheck, comparing against the Ball M2 pulls. Cast bullets were cast in bulk from wheel weights using gang molds, culled by visual inspection only, tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, and loaded as-cast WITHOUT sizing. Cast bullet groups were as good or better than the M2 Ball pulls. Velocities were higher with lubricated cast bullets than with jacketed bullets fired with the same powder charge and approached 1400 f.p.s. with 8 grains of Bullseye.

UPDATE: The HM2 mold is no longer available, but .30 cal.,160-grain cast bullets of my design are
available from Accurate 31-160H, Lee C312-160-2R, and NOE .311-155GC. The Accurate 31-155D is a plain based bullet well suited for most .30 cal. rifles and has a nose shape and meplat well suited for tubular magazine use in the .30-30, used with 6 grains of Bullseye.

We found it advantageous to reduce charges with plain based cast bullets below 1300 fps to reduce leading which impairs accuracy over long strings of fire. The minimum charge which shot accurately at 100 yards was metered with RCBS Little Dandy powder rotor #11 which throws 6 grains of Bullseye. The maximum charges which shot well over long strings of fire in the .30-'06 with soft, 8-10 BHN plain based bullets were with rotors #13 and #14 which meter charges of 7.2 and 7.8 grains, respectively. These are great for low cost practice, training, and small game, useable in any sound .30-’06 rifle.

If lowest noise and reduced danger space is the goal, the 6 grain Bullseye load works well with lubricated lead bullets from 130-210 grains in any .30 cal. case from the .30-30 to the .30-’06. The NOE clone of #311299 is stable subsonic in a ten-inch twist barrel.

With military FMJ pulled bullets of standard weight for the caliber do not load more than 8 grs. of Bullseye in the .30-'06, 7.62x54R Russian, 7.62 NAT0, or 8mm Mauser, and no more than 7 grains in the 7.65 Argentine, 7.7 Japanese or .303 British. Do not reduce charges any further than those listed with jacketed bullets, to avoid sticking a bullet in the bore.

When using lubricated lead cast bullets of weight not exceeding that of the service bullet, the lightest charge which will safely exit the barrel in “Cat Sneeze” loads in typical military bolt rifles is 4 grains of Bullseye, 700-X, Red Dot, or TiteGroup, or 5 grains of W231, Green Dot, WST, SR7625, or 6 grains of Universal, PB or Unique. Lubricated lead bullets exit the barrel reliably down to about 750 f.p.s. and accuracy is reasonable to 50 yards. Do not reduce charges further. The web site http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm has comprehensive reduced rifle load data and is recommended as further reference.

These gallery loads will not cycle the action in semi-automatic rifles, but can be fed manually from clips in the Garand. Whenever using reduced charges of dense, fast-burning pistol powder it is absolutely necessary to visually inspect 100% every case for correct powder fill using a penlight to positively prevent missing or double charges or spilled powder. Another solution is to use a bulky powder, such as Trail Boss which overflows the case if inadvertently double-charged.

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[Bad Ass Wallace]

Took many attempts but I did finally shoot a 10 shot sub moa group with my Springfield O3A4. Lyman 284311 sized to 0.310" with 30.5gns 3031!

[bullseye67]

Good afternoon,
I have been shooting a LEE 170-RNFP that I turned into a Plain Base by having the Gas Check removed. I have a bunch of WW 540 from shotgun days (same as Hodgdon HS-6) I used 8gr-10gr to find a load that worked.
Picture with writing is at 40 yards it was group #3 as cast TL 45/45/10.
Picture 2 is a 311299 sized .311 210gr T/L 45/45/10 NO GC 10gr WW 540. This was at 100 ish yards. was less than 1.42-.308=1.11"
I know a couple of guy that bought the boolit you are showing. (A place in your province initials BB) Don't be discouraged if you use them.
PM me and I will send you some boolits.
Have an awesome weekend

[Don_Parsons]

WOW, thanks alot everyone.

As I mentioned in the above posts,,, low Velocity plinking with these non-gas checked boolitz.
Getting started some where is better than not trying any thing at all.

I remember years ago asking folks in our area about doing the cast boolitz for my 308 as many of them told me I'd be waisting my efforts and time.
They steered me away from this with ideas that these bullets would not reach out there, they will fowl my barrle, not good for hunting, and they have poor accuracy,,, sure that these comments might be some what true if a person is comparing the lead rocks too the jacketed missile of today,,, but who would of ever thought that 50 jacketed rocket science boolitz "only" would cost $38 for the cheapest too $80 mid range on up to $120 Cnd funds up here.

I'll play this game of high tech stuff for F-Class shooting and full on iron silhouette match,,, but not for plinking.

$ 0.02 cents per boolit is pretty hard to beet for have fun,,, and at .6 to .7 gr of powder will keep the costs in check I'm thinking.

Once I try some gas checked rounds "once I find some," I'll be hooked.

I'm the type of person that use to give up easy, but that all changed when I became a "yes I can" person.

I'm wishing now at my age that I would of took this challange on back then,,, it would of never of happened had I not found some jacketed boolitz with in my price range. My price range is not above $30 per box of 50 of copper. LOL.

The 3 F-Class boxes set me back $210 ish Cnd funds for 3 boxes of 50... They will be for match only.
Nor am I will too pay $38 for jacked 110gr @ 50 per box.

This is what brought me here.

Cast boolitz only makes sense as its wize too learn trigger control, fire forum cases, practic TR and F, as well as have a good time.

The avenues are endless if we choose,,, and I'm game too give it a go.

I like many others have nothing to loose, and we won't know until we try for our selves.

Us yes we can type people can make this happen, and once we "hopefully" master this, then we can share what we learned.

A life learner thing needs to happen in my world. I'm not going to playing the high price ammo game, so this forum and your folks input will help me find a path too plinking with in my budge, maybe this Odd-6 won't cut the cheese,,, but at least it will put me on a wizer path that I need too be on. That's what really counts.

Path unknown too keep life interesting.

Don

[15meter]

Do a search for Ed Harris and The Load for military rifles, I think it may even be a sticky in the military rifle forum, he has every thing from carbine bullet short range plinkers to 200 grain bullets out to 600. You should find a load in there somewhere.

[guicksylver]

Took many attempts but I did finally shoot a 10 shot sub moa group with my Springfield O3A4. Lyman 284311 sized to 0.310" with 30.5gns 3031!

Try that boolit with 29-30 grs 4064, 4895 and I think you'll find that group to be a norm...( I'd also try the boolits sized .311)

Great shooting BTW.....Dan