Denominational Issues

[1johnlb]

Still haven't seen anyone prove the catholic faith wrong in that the bible tells us that communion IS taking the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Not one passage that says its symbolic. That train of thought came from man not Jesus.

What are you trying to say, explain yourself, we can't read your mind.Your words are muffled to a point at least I can't understand what your trying to say. Personally I'm not here to prove anyone right or wrong but to share truth as written not as interpreted by sects.

[Lloyd Smale]

ever wonder why preach and teach are close to the same word? because they are near the same word. do you not TEACH your children about GOD? Keep trying though its kind of entertaining.


1.Preach

prēch, v.i. to pronounce a public discourse on sacred subjects: to discourse earnestly: to give advice in an offensive or obtrusive manner.—v.t. to publish in religious discourses: to deliver, as a sermon: to teach publicly.—n. (coll.) a sermon.—ns. Preach′er, one who discourses publicly on religious matter: a minister or clergyman; Preach′ership.—v.i. Preach′ify, to preach tediously: to weary with lengthy advice.—ns. Preach′ing, the act of preaching: a public religious discourse: a sermon; Preach′ing-cross, a cross in an open place at which monks, &c., preached.—n.pl. Preach′ing-frī′ars, the Dominicans.—n. Preach′ment, a sermon, in contempt: a discourse affectedly solemn.—adj. Preach′y, given to tedious moralising.—Preach down, and up, to decry, or the opposite. [Fr. prêcher (It. predicare)—L. prædicāre, -ātum, to proclaim.]

[1johnlb]

Some men look into the mirror, using the light. Some look in the mirror in the darkness, and some just look at self-portraits painted from the imagination of what they want to be instead of reality.

[Lloyd Smale]

I'm not here saying the catholic way is the only way either. Just defending against blind unfounded predudices some have. Looks like you resort to personal attacks though. My words are not muffled. They are the truth. I cant make you open your eyes and see them though. I asked a simple question to the people here that say the Catholics have communion all wrong. Some of you like to quote the bible so I ask if you could even find a passage that you can twist as usual to prove me wrong. Show me one bible passage that says that when Jesus said that he did it symbolically. Are you saying that in that aspect the bible is wrong? It is man that made the determination in some faiths that it is symbolic, Jesus never said that. If you cant read and understand that then you might need some reading comprehension training. If you cant understand that simple question how can I take your comprehension of the bible seriously.

What are you trying to say, explain yourself, we can't read your mind.Your words are muffled to a point at least I can't understand what your trying to say. Personally I'm not here to prove anyone right or wrong but to share truth as written not as interpreted by sects.

[Lloyd Smale]

sounds just like one of the people who think they have it all figured out and MILLIONS of others are wrong. Must be nice to be so sure of yourself.

Some men look into the mirror, using the light. Some look in the mirror in the darkness, and some just look at self-portraits painted from the imagination of what they want to be instead of reality.

[Preacher Jim]

The problem as I see it you all are debating religion.
Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship with the living savior.
Religion is man made, man interpreted and only defined by what you been taught.
We should be more interested in how we can work together to spread Christianity not our denomination.
We are called to make disciples of Jesus not our church. Just a thought to see if what you are discussing is doing this or has it become a defensive debate of your choice to worship the savior.

[DCP]

The problem as I see it you all are debating religion.
Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship with the living savior.
Religion is man made, man interpreted and only defined by what you been taught.
We should be more interested in how we can work together to spread Christianity not our denomination.
We are called to make disciples of Jesus not our church. Just a thought to see if what you are discussing is doing this or has it become a defensive debate of your choice to worship the savior.

Amen!

[DCP]

sounds just like one of the people who think they have it all figured out and MILLIONS of others are wrong. Must be nice to be so sure of yourself.

This what I am sure of, you are doing the attacking. You actually compared Luther to a pedophile.

[1johnlb]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale
I asked a simple question to the people here that say the Catholics have communion all wrong. Some of you like to quote the bible so I ask if you could even find a passage that you can twist as usual to prove me wrong. Show me one bible passage that says that when Jesus said that he did it symbolically.

You still only vaguely stated your stance on the matter. Personally I've never said anybody takes communion wrong. Communion is personal and if one decides to take it a certain way that's between him and the Lord. But the best I can make out of your statement is that communion is not symbolic our at least Jesus did not say symbolic in the word. Is that correct?

If that's it, OK, you asked for it, remember don't get mad at me, you asked for it.

Luke 22:19-20


19 And He took bread, gave thanks and brokeit, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.


So, your saying the bread isn't a symbol of His body and the cup isn't a symbol of the New Covenant in His blood?

[DCP]

You still only vaguely stated your stance on the matter. Personally I've never said anybody takes communion wrong. Communion is personal and if one decides to take it a certain way that's between him and the Lord. But the best I can make out of your statement is that communion is not symbolic our at least Jesus did not say symbolic in the word. Is that correct?

If that's it, OK, you asked for it, remember don't get mad at me, you asked for it.

Luke 22:19-20


19 And He took bread, gave thanks and brokeit, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.


So, your saying the bread isn't a symbol of His body and the cup isn't a symbol of the New Covenant in His blood?

Yes he is and he would be correct

This is My body
in My blood, which is shed for you

[1johnlb]

Yes he is and he would be correct

This is My body
in My blood, which is shed for you

Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale
t. Not one passage that says its symbolic.

He's wrong according to his statement, "not one passage says it's symbolic". He's wrong, unless your just trying to be funny, because it's actually 2 passages.

[DCP]

He's wrong according to his statement, "not one passage says it's symbolic". He's wrong, unless your just trying to be funny, because it's actually 2 passages.

Where do you read its a Symbolic. These are Christ words.

This is My body

in My blood, which is shed for you

The new covenant is CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY
the covenant between God and the followers of Jesus Christ.

https://www.gotquestions.org/new-covenant.html

He is correct!

[Lloyd Smale]

The problem as I see it you all are debating religion.
Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship with the living savior.
Religion is man made, man interpreted and only defined by what you been taught.
We should be more interested in how we can work together to spread Christianity not our denomination.
We are called to make disciples of Jesus not our church. Just a thought to see if what you are discussing is doing this or has it become a defensive debate of your choice to worship the savior.

I agree but working together to spread Christianity and spreading Christianity could easily be considered works.

[Lloyd Smale]

No he said in plain words "THIS IS MY BODY DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME" He didn't say this represents my body. He didn't say its a cracker do it whenever the mood strikes. Its man who took the importance out of it. It was almost his dieing wish! It is MUCH more then a symbol!!

You still only vaguely stated your stance on the matter. Personally I've never said anybody takes communion wrong. Communion is personal and if one decides to take it a certain way that's between him and the Lord. But the best I can make out of your statement is that communion is not symbolic our at least Jesus did not say symbolic in the word. Is that correct?

If that's it, OK, you asked for it, remember don't get mad at me, you asked for it.

Luke 22:19-20


19 And He took bread, gave thanks and brokeit, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.


So, your saying the bread isn't a symbol of His body and the cup isn't a symbol of the New Covenant in His blood?

[Hogtamer]

Transubstantiation is the word for the belief of Catholics and Episcopalians that the bread and cup of the Eucharist are transformed into the actual body and blood of Christ. Protestants belief that they are symbols as Christ taught in such a manner; "I am the bread of life." "I am the door" being a couple of examples. He often taught in parables, word pictures if you will that conveyed the essence of the Kingdom of God. Great reverence, humility and thanksgiving are the only response for a believer, whatever your faith dictates.

[jmort]

As I stated in Post # 2

"There is agreement on core issues of salvation as a general matter.
The rest is not critical to salvation and is where battles are pitched"

Predestination, transubstantiation, tribulation and on and on.

The Apostles' Creed sums it up for me, and after that we can debate

Ecumenical version Edit

15th-century Flemish tapestry illustrating the first four articles of the Creed
The English Language Liturgical Consultation (ELLC) is an international ecumenical group whose primary purpose is to provide ecumenically accepted texts for those who use English in their liturgy. In 1988 it produced a translation of the Apostles' Creed, distinguished among other things by its avoidance of the word "his" in relation to God. The text is as follows:[22]

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

[DCP]

As I stated in Post # 2

"There is agreement on core issues of salvation as a general matter.
The rest is not critical to salvation and is where battles are pitched"

Predestination, transubstantiation, tribulation and on and on.

The Apostles' Creed sums it up for me, and after that we can debate

Ecumenical version Edit

15th-century Flemish tapestry illustrating the first four articles of the Creed
The English Language Liturgical Consultation (ELLC) is an international ecumenical group whose primary purpose is to provide ecumenically accepted texts for those who use English in their liturgy. In 1988 it produced a translation of the Apostles' Creed, distinguished among other things by its avoidance of the word "his" in relation to God. The text is as follows:[22]

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Amen!

[1johnlb]

Transubstantiation is the word for the belief of Catholics and Episcopalians that the bread and cup of the Eucharist are transformed into the actual body and blood of Christ. Protestants belief that they are symbols as Christ taught in such a manner; "I am the bread of life." "I am the door" being a couple of examples. He often taught in parables, word pictures if you will that conveyed the essence of the Kingdom of God. Great reverence, humility and thanksgiving are the only response for a believer, whatever your faith dictates.

Thanks Hogtamer. Talk about straining a gnat but swallowing a camel

[DCP]

Thanks Hogtamer. Talk about straining a gnat but swallowing a camel

Wow, dont we have a Christian attitude with the wrong facts

I am a Protestant and was not taught it was a symbol. You have distorted Christ own word boys.
If you believe in the virgin birth
Christ rose from the dead and all the Miracle

Then you deny Christ own words
This is My body

in My blood, which is shed for you


I dont understand it totally, but I have faith and believe Christs own words

[jmort]

Respectfully disagree with you, and agree with Hogtamer.