Denominational Issues

[Lloyd Smale]

I don't know if it was started with luther or not. the catholic church had some splitting within itself and some say it isn't so because there still considered catholics. Bottom line is the BIG split was with luther. Now it would be hard to argue with if all that happened was he split off and all the members of his church agreed with him and there was two churches. But that sure isn't the case. Every time someone wanted power or didn't like one of the rules of the luthern church or other protestant churches they made up there own rules and own interpretation of the bible. Also if you check into old Luther youll find that he was no better then the catholic priest that today are slammed for being pedophiles. He wasn't the holy man some want to make him out to be. Was there bishops and cardinals and even popes that were no better? Bet your life! Luther was just a man who craved attention and power. The catholic church saw through him and wouldn't give it to him so he found a way to get it himself. All that said some will think that I feel superior because I'm a catholic and that's far from the truth. theres good catholics and bad catholics just like theres good protestants and bad protestants. I have ALOT more respect for a GOOD protestant that does more then lip service then I do some hypocrite catholic that partys all Saturday night with his girlfriend and shows up to church sunday morning with his wife and children.

What I have the biggest problem with isn't the Baptist, lutherns, Methodists ect that are good church going people who try to lead a good life, its the hypocrite who comes on here trying to look all knowlegable about the bible or argues for his chosen profession but the only effort he puts in is over the internet. To lazy to even go to church on sunday. Or the guy who reads the bible and thinks hes got the correct interpretation that everyone before him for over 2000 years just couldn't see. So smart in fact that he thinks all the organized religions are wrong and uses that for any excuse to sleep in on sunday. I sure don't think going to church buys your way to heaven. Only being a Christian does that. But the fact that some don't have an hour a week to dedicate just to Jesus shows me that your surely not a Christian. I don't care if you spend 8 hours by yourself reading the bible every week because if your doing it all alone with no other opinions your just reading a book. Just like the hundreds of splits in the protestant faith you too will just twist it to fit what you want to believe. Now I'm sure I'm going to get some comments on this. Bring them on. But i don't want to get into any arguments here so I'm not going to even bother replying. I know nothing i said was wrong.

It all started with Martin Luther!

[Hogtamer]

Gentlemen, we are speaking of the bride of Christ. Would you talk of another man's wife with scorn and condemnation? Let your gentleness be known to all men, for the Lord is at hand. Whatever things are true, noble, just; whatever things are pure, lovely and of good report; if there is ANY virture, if there is ANYTHING praiseworthy, meditate on these things.

[1johnlb]

If a person has always been lost, does he know he is lost?

If a lost man guides another lost man, aren't they both still lost?

Saul was lost and was guided by lost men, only in his encounter on the road to Damascus did he realize he was lost. So I guess I have to just overlook some folks who haven't made it to the road to Damascus yet, but think they have.

God bless

[DCP]

One of the difference between roman catholics and Lutherans and Luther biggest problem was.
The roman catholics believed that you are saved only by good works.
Luther believed you were saved by GRACE

Another reason was and why the Baptists broke off was. The Body and Blood of Christ is present when taking Communion. Baptists believe it a symbol.

[Good Cheer]

My solution to dealing with the schism minded is to remind myself how ignorant we all are.
If that doesn't work I try to bite my tongue.
If that doesn't work I tell them how ignorant they are.
And that never works.

[Char-Gar]

My solution to dealing with the schism minded is to remind myself how ignorant we all are.
If that doesn't work I try to bite my tongue.
If that doesn't work I tell them how ignorant they are.
And that never works.

Now that is pure truth.

[Lloyd Smale]

could it be that luther didn't want to be bothered with good works??? Like i said it seems like the protestant faith branches off every time someone doesn't like what there doing to be considered wrong. I wonder too what Luthers opinion would have been of some protestant faiths embracing gay marriage and turning the other cheek when it comes to abortion. As to communion can any who claim the catholic beliefs are wrong show me scripture that states that Jesus didn't say anything but this is my body and this is my blood?? Did the bible say This symbolizes my body and blood???? Pretty much black and white as far as i see it but then again like i said if you want it to fit your agenda you can twist bible scripture to mean about anything that fits your needs. Its why as catholics we rely on our pope, cardinals, bishops and priests that are experts on it to decide what the true meaning is. Not a bunch of old bittys and self proclaimed experts at bible study Friday night.. Men who for 2000 years have dedicated there whole lives to studying the bible. I somehow have to believe that seeing that the catholic church was founded in the first century that they would have slightly better idea of what the bible means then a car salesman and a school teacher. this time i will bow out of it because ive probably offended some that consider themselves experts on scripture. Must have learned it somewhere between casting and sizing

One of the difference between roman catholics and Lutherans and Luther biggest problem was.
The roman catholics believed that you are saved only by good works.
Luther believed you were saved by GRACE

Another reason was and why the Baptists broke off was. The Body and Blood of Christ is present when taking Communion. Baptists believe it a symbol.

[Ickisrulz]

could it be that luther didn't want to be bothered with good works??? Like i said it seems like the protestant faith branches off every time someone doesn't like what there doing to be considered wrong. I wonder too what Luthers opinion would have been of some protestant faiths embracing gay marriage and turning the other cheek when it comes to abortion. As to communion can any who claim the catholic beliefs are wrong show me scripture that states that Jesus didn't say anything but this is my body and this is my blood?? Did the bible say This symbolizes my body and blood???? Pretty much black and white as far as i see it but then again like i said if you want it to fit your agenda you can twist bible scripture to mean about anything that fits your needs. Its why as catholics we rely on our pope, cardinals, bishops and priests that are experts on it to decide what the true meaning is. Not a bunch of old bittys and self proclaimed experts at bible study Friday night.. Men who for 2000 years have dedicated there whole lives to studying the bible. I somehow have to believe that seeing that the catholic church was founded in the first century that they would have slightly better idea of what the bible means then a car salesman and a school teacher. this time i will bow out of it because ive probably offended some that consider themselves experts on scripture. Must have learned it somewhere between casting and sizing

A quick scan of Luther's 95 theses shows that he clearly meant to work within the Roman Catholic Church and did not want to leave it.

http://www.luther.de/en/95thesen.html

[1johnlb]

Lloyd Smale
Its why as catholics we rely on our pope, cardinals, bishops and priests that are experts on it to decide what the true meaning is. Not a bunch of old bittys and self proclaimed experts at bible study Friday night.. Men who for 2000 years have dedicated there whole lives to studying the bible. I somehow have to believe that seeing that the catholic church was founded in the first century that they would have slightly better idea of what the bible means then a car salesman and a school teacher

This goes against everything that the New covenant was made for and scripture from old and new. Over and over again , " trust God not man". The very " black and white wording of the new covenant is that , " NO MAN shall teach his brother but they ALL SHALL KNOW ME. It's not my fault who you trust in, but then you might need to actually read the bible and pray to the Father to know this.

[Thundarstick]

Who are these prophecies warning against?

1Ti 4:1-4
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

[DCP]

Why Christians Were Denied Access to Their Bible for 1,000 Years

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernar...b_3303545.html

The Church actually discouraged the populace from reading the Bible on their own — a policy that intensified through the Middle Ages and later, with the addition of a prohibition forbidding translation of the Bible into native languages.

Thats what the Roman Cathloic, Popes and ............... did to the common man!

[jcwit]

I don't know if it was started with luther or not. the catholic church had some splitting within itself and some say it isn't so because there still considered catholics. Bottom line is the BIG split was with luther. Now it would be hard to argue with if all that happened was he split off and all the members of his church agreed with him and there was two churches. But that sure isn't the case. Every time someone wanted power or didn't like one of the rules of the luthern church or other protestant churches they made up there own rules and own interpretation of the bible. Also if you check into old Luther youll find that he was no better then the catholic priest that today are slammed for being pedophiles. He wasn't the holy man some want to make him out to be. Was there bishops and cardinals and even popes that were no better? Bet your life! Luther was just a man who craved attention and power. The catholic church saw through him and wouldn't give it to him so he found a way to get it himself. All that said some will think that I feel superior because I'm a catholic and that's far from the truth. theres good catholics and bad catholics just like theres good protestants and bad protestants. I have ALOT more respect for a GOOD protestant that does more then lip service then I do some hypocrite catholic that partys all Saturday night with his girlfriend and shows up to church sunday morning with his wife and children.

What I have the biggest problem with isn't the Baptist, lutherns, Methodists ect that are good church going people who try to lead a good life, its the hypocrite who comes on here trying to look all knowlegable about the bible or argues for his chosen profession but the only effort he puts in is over the internet. To lazy to even go to church on sunday. Or the guy who reads the bible and thinks hes got the correct interpretation that everyone before him for over 2000 years just couldn't see. So smart in fact that he thinks all the organized religions are wrong and uses that for any excuse to sleep in on sunday. I sure don't think going to church buys your way to heaven. Only being a Christian does that. But the fact that some don't have an hour a week to dedicate just to Jesus shows me that your surely not a Christian. I don't care if you spend 8 hours by yourself reading the bible every week because if your doing it all alone with no other opinions your just reading a book. Just like the hundreds of splits in the protestant faith you too will just twist it to fit what you want to believe. Now I'm sure I'm going to get some comments on this. Bring them on. But i don't want to get into any arguments here so I'm not going to even bother replying. I know nothing i said was wrong.

Actually I pretty much agree with you Lloyd!

No argument from me.

[xdmalder]

could it be that luther didn't want to be bothered with good works??? Like i said it seems like the protestant faith branches off every time someone doesn't like what there doing to be considered wrong. I wonder too what Luthers opinion would have been of some protestant faiths embracing gay marriage and turning the other cheek when it comes to abortion. As to communion can any who claim the catholic beliefs are wrong show me scripture that states that Jesus didn't say anything but this is my body and this is my blood?? Did the bible say This symbolizes my body and blood???? Pretty much black and white as far as i see it but then again like i said if you want it to fit your agenda you can twist bible scripture to mean about anything that fits your needs. Its why as catholics we rely on our pope, cardinals, bishops and priests that are experts on it to decide what the true meaning is. Not a bunch of old bittys and self proclaimed experts at bible study Friday night.. Men who for 2000 years have dedicated there whole lives to studying the bible. I somehow have to believe that seeing that the catholic church was founded in the first century that they would have slightly better idea of what the bible means then a car salesman and a school teacher. this time i will bow out of it because ive probably offended some that consider themselves experts on scripture. Must have learned it somewhere between casting and sizing

And quotes like this right here is the biggest reason for denominations.

[1johnlb]

And quotes like this right here is the biggest reason for denominations.

It might be the 2000 year old men that started the denominational splits. If not they may have heard from a old bitty who it was.

[Lloyd Smale]

they weren't. Fact is every bible was hand written then and most of them in latin so that average man couldn't afford one or read it if they could. That goes for protestants and Catholics and Jewish people. Why would the church even had to restrict reading it. You had to be a rich man to afford the privilege. [QUOTE=DCP;4094169]Why Christians Were Denied Access to Their Bible for 1,000 Years

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernard

[Lloyd Smale]

This goes against everything that the New covenant was made for and scripture from old and new. Over and over again , " trust God not man". The very " black and white wording of the new covenant is that , " NO MAN shall teach his brother but they ALL SHALL KNOW ME. It's not my fault who you trust in, but then you might need to actually read the bible and pray to the Father to know this.

good example of twisting a scripture passage to fit an argument. Its exactly why I think to many spend to much time studying the bible and using it to justify there sins. Ive read the bible. I read the bible. It is a very complicated book that no one man can possibly know the true meaning of its scriptures. I think of it kind of like this. A man can read the owners manual for his new truck and even the service manual. Does that make him capable of understanding everything in it or translating those words into correct thought and practice? Reading the bible doesn't make you chirstian any more then reading that owners manual makes you a mechanic. You have to go out and practice what it teaches you. That's why I find it so silly that some think acts aren't nessisary. I can find hundreds of expamples right in the bible of things (acts) Jesus tells us we must do. Everything from keeping the Sabbath to the 10 commandments. In fact the most important thing the bible teaches is how we must ACT to get into heaven. If you don't believe ACTS help you become a good Christian why do you even bother reading the bible. That itself is an act. Keep thinking you have free reign to sin all you want and we will see how that plays out at the pearly gates.

[Lloyd Smale]

Still haven't seen anyone prove the catholic faith wrong in that the bible tells us that communion IS taking the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Not one passage that says its symbolic. That train of thought came from man not Jesus.

[Lloyd Smale]

This goes against everything that the New covenant was made for and scripture from old and new. Over and over again , " trust God not man". The very " black and white wording of the new covenant is that , " NO MAN shall teach his brother but they ALL SHALL KNOW ME. It's not my fault who you trust in, but then you might need to actually read the bible and pray to the Father to know this.

then why did Jesus tell his disciples to go out and teach the word of God?? Why did God give Moses the 10 commandments. Should the people have believed him? I sure don't think the catholic church is alone in teaching its people. In fact all organized religions do it. In the beginning there was NO BIBLE. Teaching was the only way to learn. IN fact the bible is the most important teaching tool that ever existed. So let me ask you this. By your post id have to believe that you don't feel the need for any church or bible study. You believe its against the bible to let some other man teach or help you understand it. You obviously think that you are capable of what no other man ever was capable of. That is totally understanding ever aspect of the bible. In fact that would be the ultimate vanity. Last I heard that's a sin.

[1johnlb]

good example of twisting a scripture passage to fit an argument. Its exactly why I think to many spend to much time studying the bible and using it to justify there sins. Ive read the bible. I read the bible. It is a very complicated book that no one man can possibly know the true meaning of its scriptures. I think of it kind of like this. A man can read the owners manual for his new truck and even the service manual. Does that make him capable of understanding everything in it or translating those words into correct thought and practice? Reading the bible doesn't make you chirstian any more then reading that owners manual makes you a mechanic. You have to go out and practice what it teaches you. That's why I find it so silly that some think acts aren't nessisary. I can find hundreds of expamples right in the bible of things (acts) Jesus tells us we must do. Everything from keeping the Sabbath to the 10 commandments. In fact the most important thing the bible teaches is how we must ACT to get into heaven. If you don't believe ACTS help you become a good Christian why do you even bother reading the bible. That itself is an act. Keep thinking you have free reign to sin all you want and we will see how that plays out at the pearly gates.

Just because you call it twisted with nothing to back it up, except you and your thoughts. I gave you sound doctrine from old and new testament in " black and white and you say I'm twisted. Now i understand why several verses later it says "and ready to vanish away" because you can't let go of the old and your new wine is spoiled.

[1johnlb]

then why did Jesus tell his disciples to go out and teach the word of God?? Why did God give Moses the 10 commandments. Should the people have believed him? I sure don't think the catholic church is alone in teaching its people. In fact all organized religions do it. In the beginning there was NO BIBLE. Teaching was the only way to learn. IN fact the bible is the most important teaching tool that ever existed. So let me ask you this. By your post id have to believe that you don't feel the need for any church or bible study. You believe its against the bible to let some other man teach or help you understand it. You obviously think that you are capable of what no other man ever was capable of. That is totally understanding ever aspect of the bible. In fact that would be the ultimate vanity. Last I heard that's a sin.

You say teach, the word is preach, big difference. There is 1 teacher, The Holy Spirit, that's the word of God.