Denominational Issues

[wv109323]

As we all know there are several issues/subjects that well studied people of the Bible disagree upon. I don't want to discuss the issues themselves but why there is disagreement among believers?
Should not Bible believing Christians be very close in agreement on these topics? Do you believe that one side is right and the other side wrong?
Is it a tool of the Devil to keep Christians divided over issues?
Why are people so strong natured about their beliefs?
The Bible says we should study and be guided by the Holy Spirit,then why is there diverse opinion on subjects?

[jmort]

There is agreement on core issues of salvation as a general matter.
The rest is not critical to salvation and is where battles are pitched.

[Thundarstick]

Is it a tool of the Devil to keep Christians divided over issues?
Why are people so strong natured about their beliefs?
The Bible says we should study and be guided by the Holy Spirit,then why is there diverse opinion on subjects?

Deception a tool of Satan, really? What if I could convince you, you only have believe to be saved? What if I can convince you that (fill in the blank with your favorite sin) really isn't one, we just don't understand who the writer was speaking to, or what he really meant? What if I could convince you that no matter how you live, or what you do that Jesus loves you so much you could never fail away? What if I could convince you that you have to accept every sinful lifestyle under the sun because God has changed and that OT stuff don't count any more, that is all love love love and there's never going to be a punishment? What if I could convince you that only part of the Bible is true, and you'll have to read 40 denominational authors and figure out what is true or applies toady? Etc etc etc! There are Christian denominations that hold many of these ideas. That's why.

[StolzerandSons]

Have you ever heard of Mr. and Mrs. Flat living in Flatland?

Denominations are born from our own perceptions. Or said another way, denominations are what someone(or group) thinks God revealed to them.

[jcwit]

It all started with Martin Luther!

[StolzerandSons]

It all started with Martin Luther!

Only for the Catholics. I bet if you ask an Independent Fundamental Baptist if he thinks his church is a reformation church you would get a different answer. I bet they would tell you that their church has always been there even before the reformation.

[Tom W.]

Yup, us IFB are hard headed. It's when we step back and take a breath and dig deeper we start to say " But what about this?" Been there, done that. The pastor is still a very good friend of mine, but I can no longer accept some of the beliefs. It's not so much the core beliefs, but some of the peripheral visions.

[Wayne Smith]

That and, when the leadership goes liberal either the ones who truly believe what the Bible says either take over (Southern Baptists recent history) or leave and found a new denomination, or sub denomination (Presbyterians have this habit). The organization needs to respond to official heresy some way.

[claude]

One huge issue with denominational division is that the majority of Christians let somebody else do their homework for them and rely on what a man says.

"let no man deceive you".... (and this includes ourselves)1Corinthians 3:18, Eph. 5:6, 2Thes 2:3, and 1 John 3:7

The most difficult individual for the Spirit to teach is he whose wine bottle is so full and so tight and so sere that a truth cannot enter, we must remain pliable, watered with that Spiritual water that lets the potter work the clay.

YMMV

[DCP]

It all started with Martin Luther!

Here is the History
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_den1.htm

[jmort]

"One huge issue with denominational division is that the majority of Christians let somebody else do their homework for them and rely on what a man says."

To claude, did God appoint you to teach, preach, pastor, etc??? It appears not, as you are advocating what the Bible specifically rejects.

Few, very few, are equipped to discern what is essential to The Faith. So while your post sounds sounds "deep", it is unrealistic. The post is an example of what is wrong with the church. And not Bibical as well. Sure; Study to show thyself approved, but keep your ears open. Do your part and move forward on with what you have been taught, with the Bible as your guide. Take what makes sense and reject the rest in light of the Bible.

Ephesians 4:11-16King James Version (KJV)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

[Thundarstick]

It appears not, as you are advocating what the Bible specifically rejects.

What's the OP advocating again, I saw all question marks.

But speaking the truth in love The problem here is there's a bunch of folks who arn't going to hear the truth in love, or any other way for that matter!

The real question is, what it take to be a follower of Christ? I think most of us can get real close to the same on that!

A new question. Do divisions actually bring more to Christ by diverse doctoring that isn't necessary for salvation, or do we really believe that they are necessary for ones salvation?

[jmort]

What I am stating, as a fact beyond dispute, if you believe in Bibilical guidance, is:


Ephesians 4:11-16King James Version (KJV)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The idea that you just make it up as you go is a joke. Find a teacher, there are a lot of good ones, and measure what they teach against the Bible. My post is directed at the post from claude, just make it up for yourself. No, get some good teaching and press it against the Bible to make sure it is sound teaching. You are reiterating my point from post #2. Have you been called by God to teach us??? I have not.

[jcwit]

Only for the Catholics. I bet if you ask an Independent Fundamental Baptist if he thinks his church is a reformation church you would get a different answer. I bet they would tell you that their church has always been there even before the reformation.

Sorry guy, Martin started it all regardless of your beliefe. There were no IFB's prior to the reformation, it's where the break up all started, and is still going on!

You trying to tell us that all these denominationals exited prior to the reformation, Give me a break.

Prove it here with links to support your thinking!

[jcwit]

Here is the History
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_den1.htm

YUP! That's the way it went!

[claude]

What I am stating, as a fact beyond dispute, if you believe in Bibilical guidance, is:

"let no man deceive you".... (and this includes ourselves)1Corinthians 3:18, Eph. 5:6, 2Thes 2:3, and 1 John 3:7

I believe you pretty much proved my point.

[wv109323]

There were Baptist before the reformation. They were known as Anti-baptist because they did not believe that baptism and church membership was equal to salvation. The Catholic Church sprinkles you and you become a member of the church. That with following church doctrine gets you into heaven.
The Baptists were persecuted along with the Jews during the Inquisition. A good book on the subject is "The Trail of Blood".

[xdmalder]

The biggest reason is the concept of hell as an eternal place of damnation and torment. The fear of never seeing ones loved ones who have passed have most people blindly locked into a belief based solely on so my loved ones will not suffer. The concept of a hell for people is a idea from pagan religions. With the threat of hell, leaders of a religion have a huge amount of influence over their subjects.

Also the Catholic Church was one of the biggest first splits in Christian history. Before that there were many sects and denominations in Judeo history. It all starts with wanting control

Also the Father has called each and every one of us to be a teacher. It is our and ours alone responsibility to teach our children in the ways of Scripture.

By the way, there are many teachings and passages in Scripture that lend authority to universal salvation.

[William Yanda]

One teacher I heard described it as what happens when you "major on the minors". It's what happens when the focus is on a man, not the Savior.

[Ickisrulz]

What I am stating, as a fact beyond dispute, if you believe in Bibilical guidance, is:


Ephesians 4:11-16King James Version (KJV)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The idea that you just make it up as you go is a joke. Find a teacher, there are a lot of good ones, and measure what they teach against the Bible. My post is directed at the post from claude, just make it up for yourself. No, get some good teaching and press it against the Bible to make sure it is sound teaching. You are reiterating my point from post #2. Have you been called by God to teach us??? I have not.

Unfortunately, many people end up stuck in dogma they learned as a child or young person and never progressed beyond this point. Everything they read in scripture is made to fit within their core of beliefs and there is very little room for them to learn. There is also the belief that the Holy Spirit will somehow reveal all the secrets the Bible holds without the need for real study in history, cultural situations, etc. So in reality, how many people seek out good teachers? How many people just seek out churches where the pastor tells them what they already know or want to hear? Not all churches even have a real pastor/teacher (more than likely a single office).

We are so fortunate today that the best scholarship that has ever existed on the Bible is available for purchase or obtaining a library card. There are also online college classes for those inclined. Today's Christian can learn so much more than what they receive in their local church.