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Thread: What do you load with Blue Dot?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    I like Seafire's Blue Dot .22-250 loads. It also used to be my go-to powder for .357 Magnum back when it was Hercules.

    I have this quote in a text file; pretty sure it's from 24 hour campfire:

    "A Rule of Thumb for bottleneck rifle rounds is to fill a case with BlueDot and then weigh that amount. Use 40% of the weight as your Start load, and 60% as your Max. Use caution over 50% as pressures can mount quickly.

    That works with most bullets of a nominal weight for that round.

    -Rocky Raab"

    And here is a pretty comprehensive post by Seafire, on Blue Dot in .22-250:


    "For inquiring minds:

    re: 22.250

    Blue Dot Range Report: 22/250

    Firearm Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2

    Barrel: 22 inch sporter weight

    Case: Remington

    Range Tested: 7 grains to 20 grains. 20 % ( 6.6 grains) 60 % ( 19.8 grains)

    Full Case Capacity to Rim: 33 grains/

    Bullets Used in Test:
    46 Win HP, 50 Hornady SP, 52 Sierra HP Match, 55 Win FMJ, 60 Hornady SP
    63 Sierra SMP


    Test Results:

    I. 46 grain Winchester Hollow Point, Win Large Pistol Primer

    1. 7 grs: 1721 fps
    2. 8 grs: 1895 fps
    3. 9 grs: 2095 fps
    4. 10 grs: 2264 fps
    5. 11 grs: 2390 fps

    6. 12 grs: 2537 fps
    7. 13 grs: 2675 fps
    8. 14 grs: 2781 fps
    9. 15 grs: NO Reading
    10. 16 grs: 3063 fps

    11. 17 grs: 3177 fps
    12. 18 grs: 3274 fps
    13. 19 grs: 3388 fps ( Consider Max)
    14. 20 grs: 3440 fps ( Extractor Mark, Scrapped Case)

    II. 50 grain Hornady SP, Win Large Rifle Primer

    1. 7 grs: 1722 fps
    2. 8 grs: 1911 fps
    3. 9 grs: 2057 fps
    4. 10 grs: 2206 fps
    5. 11 grs: 2328 fps

    6. 12 grs: 2473 fps
    7. 13 grs: 2627 fps
    8. 14 grs: 2729 fps
    9. 15 grs: 2856 fps
    10. 16 grs: 2940 fps

    11. 17 grs: 3116 fps
    12. 18 grs: 3181 fps
    13. 19 grs: 3271 fps
    14. 20 grs: 3354 fps

    With this bullet, all the way to 20 grains was reached ( 60%). However, I would recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.


    III Sierra 52 grain Hollow Point Match Win Large Pistol Primer

    1. 7 grs: 1676 fps
    2. 8 grs: 1841 fps
    3. 9 grs: 1998 fps
    4. 10 grs: 2127 fps
    5. 11 grs: 2311 fps

    6. 12 grs: 2416 fps
    7. 13 grs: 2551 fps
    8. 14 grs: No Read
    9. 15 grs: 2795 fps
    10. 16 grs: 2935 fps

    11. 17 grs: 3029 fps
    12. 18 grs: 3127 fps
    13. 19 grs: 3252 fps
    14. 20 grs: 3297 fps

    This bullet also reached the 20 grains mark ( 60 %) . However once again I recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.


    IV Winchester 55 gr FMJ, Win Large Pistol Primer

    1. 7grs: 1636 fps
    2. 8 grs: 1800 fps
    3. 9 grs: 1986 fps
    4. 10 grs: 2126 fps
    5. 11 grs: 2247 fps

    6. 12 grs: 2392 fps
    7. 13 grs: 2504 fps
    8. 14 grs: 2631 fps
    9. 15 grs: 2738 fps
    10. 16 grs: 2872 fps

    11. 17 grs: 3003 fps
    12. 18 grs: 3095 fps
    13. 19 grs: 3203 fps
    14. 20 grs: 3250 fps

    As again Noted, this bullet also achieved reaching the 20 grain Mark ( 60%). However once again I recommend max capacity at 19 grains or less.


    V. Hornady 60 grain SP, Win Mag Rifle Primer

    1. 7 grs: 1587 fps
    2. 8 grs: 1769 fps
    3. 9 grs: 1901 fps
    4. 10 grs: 2034 fps
    5. 11 grs: 2162 fps

    6. 12 grs: 2290 fps
    7. 13 grs: 2406 fps
    8. 14 grs: 2489 fps
    9. 15 grs: 2618 fps
    10. 16 grs: 2735 fps

    11. 17 grs: 2832 fps
    12. 18 grs: 2832 fps
    13. 19 grs: 3058 fps ( considered max)
    14. 20 grs: 3119 fps ( primer leaked, extractor marks, scrapped case)

    Max was achieved at 19 grains. Recommend Max load at 19 grains or less.
    Based on tree used as back stop, which had a 6 inch diameter to it, bullets at 15 grains of powder and up were penetrating the tree completely. Based on this I would recommend this point as a potential deer load for youths, keeping range within 100 to 125 yds or so ( 30/30 range). The 63 grain Sierra SMP showed a lot more damage to the tree than did the Hornady, and at a much lower velocity. Use on deer is the personal choice of the shooter or adult. Some argue against 22 Center fire on deer and others are just fine with it. Key is shot placement and range limitation. I am just reporting damage to media, and penetration that I am passing on to the reader.



    VI. Sierra 63 grain Semi Pointed ( SMP) Win Mag Rifle Primer

    1. 7 grs: 1455 fps
    2. 8 grs: 1607 fps
    3. 9 grs: 1848 fps
    4. 10 grs: 1860 fps
    5. 11 grs: 2034 fps

    6. 12 grs: 2176 fps
    7. 13 grs: 2327 fps
    8. 14 grs: 2443 fps
    9. 15 grs: 2578 fps
    10. 16 grs: 2668 fps

    11. 17 grs: 2787 fps
    12. 18 grs: 2850 fps
    13. 19 grs: 2958 fps ( Consider Maximum!, NO problems observed)
    14. 20 grs: 2982 fps ( Popped primer, jammed bolt)


    Conclusions:

    For training and starting out a youth, I consider the 22/250 a better first choice to start out with, based on the test results as compared to a 223. The 223 has the economy of cheaper brass, but the 22/250 I thought offered more flexibility by being able to achieve higher velocities with heavier bullets than the 223 achieves.

    For training of youths to deer hunt, the 63 grain bullet offered a lot of promise of everything tested. Results for a 64 grain Winchester would be close to the same, just recommend working up. Start looking for max with 18 grains or so. As one can see, the increase in fps is not that much, and would make no real world difference, as I consider that 200 yds would be max range. I also feel that training a youth not to take shots over that distance is a responsible habit for an adult to teach younger shooters. Let them learn with experience and practice to learn to shoot at longer ranges.

    The 22/250 can be loaded down to levels that are between a 22 Long Rifle and a 22 Mag.
    The recoil is very low, but also so is the noise at these levels. Especially the 10 grain loads and under. It can also be enjoyable for an adult. My own 22 mags are going to get dusty, as these loads are not only cheaper to shoot, but are more accurate\85 plus one can have a bullet of his choice instead of what the factory picks to load. At the lower volumes, such as 7 grains and up, these can also make a very satisfactory load for Squirrel hunting, or similar sized game at appropriate ranges. Consult a trajectory chart in some of the commercially available reload manuals. Even at 2000 fps or under, these would make good loads for calling coyotes if you can bring them in at 100 yds or so.
    Game bullets would have the punch to drop a coyote at those velocities.

    Important Notes:

    These loads were tested in cool weather, moist outside and around the 55 to 60 degree ranges. Work up if the higher loads near max are to be used in hot weather.

    Bullets were seated out to the magazine length in the Ruger. If your rifle has a tight neck, or a shorter chamber ( Rugers are generous) then work up your loads. Also seating bullets deeper can increase pressures.

    Remember Blue Dot is a faster powder. However no filler is needed and I have tested it down to just 10 % of load capacity ( 3.3 grains and it worked just fine). It is not powder position sensitive in the case either.

    This data represents data that I have observed. It is shared as a point of reference.
    Outcomes are the responsibility of each handloader, who should be careful in his work.

    The 22/250 showed me a lot of flexibility here, moreso than the 223 even.
    It would be my pick as a better choice for a first rifle for a youth, utilizing this gathered test data.

    Cheers and Good shooting


    I can extropolate charges that would work in the fireball case, but in doing so, I know I'll really get flamed by the naythsayers...

    Blue Dot is a pretty consistent and predictable powder..

    a couple of examples are;

    in a 308 sized case, regardless of bullet weights used or regardless of caliber, 22 grains of Blue Dot is the maximum amount before you start popping primers...

    in a 6.5 x 55 case or a 57 mm case, such as the 7 x 57, 6mm Rem, 257 Roberts, 8 x 57 Mauser.. 24 grains of Blue Dot is max, regardless of caliber or bullet weight...

    blue dot prefers shorter fatter cases...
    it really likes Rem BR cases or PPC cases, or the Winchester Short mags and Super Short Mag cases.....

    naturally since it is considered a pistol and shotgun powder, it also performs well in any straight walled case, like a 444, or 45/70 style case...375 Win, 38/55 etc..

    The 60 % headwall capacity applies to some cases and the taller they are ( say 06 vs 308) I recommend 50% capacity to the headwall...

    key is don't start at the top load recommendation on any powder.. work up...

    all Blue Dot data I have ever posted, I have gone beyond what I list as maximum... I noticed lose primers beyond that or no appreciable increase in velocity...

    for 06 sized cases and Magnums, I have started to use SR 4759, especially after someone blew a mag case by double charging it...

    but still... just proves folks have to pay attention to what they are doing...regardless of type of powder.."
    Last edited by Tracy; 07-12-2017 at 02:53 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    So of those 500 rds of 41 mag that I found, some loaded a few years ago (2009) and some loaded last year. The old ones were 208gr hand swaged brass jacketed bullets with 11.0gr and also some 224gr SWC w/GC with 11.7gr. The new ones were 255gr RF Ranch Dog with 11.7gr. That load I got from a QuickLoad printout I got from Micheal and should be 25Kpsi with the 255gr RF...which would make the other loads less or at least similar.

    Anyway, during a range trip yesterday, I brought the Henry 41mag, to give it a workout ...it still doesn't cycle some ammo 100% reliably. I'm just gonna keep shooting it, til is wears or loosens up. Also, I believe there is something with the Lever actuating the 'release next round' linkage to the mag tube...it doesn't always actuate...the weird thing is, it seems to not actuate with mostly SWC ammo...honestly, I would think the bullet wouldn't matter...also, it almost NEVER fails to actuate a Jacketed bullet?

    I shot up 200 rds of these blue dot loads yesterday. I was having a good day, using my prescription bifocals, which wasn't the case in the past. I had some empty 134a freon cans (12 oz), and a small empty propane cylinder. Off hand I was hitting them every shot at 25 yds. In the past, I have struggled with these glasses, this was the first outing I was happy with hitting my targets. As to the Blue Dot loads, I didn't notice any pressure spikes/issues, I checked each fired cartridge as it was shot, as that was the reason for this range trip. Also, it was good trigger control therapy, that's for sure. I'm getting pretty good with the iron sites on the Henry. The Ranch Dog bullets did the best, when they were loaded, I seated them, so they engage the rifling when chambered.

    While I didn't do any shooting from the bench to get an idea about 'real' accuracy, I was plenty happy with these loads, and it will be difficult to NOT use Blue Dot in 41 mag anymore, as I say again, I was quite happy with these loads yesterday ...80º degrees and humid.

    The 224gr SWC GC were bullets that I didn't cast, I swapped for them from rbuck351, and they had a homemade lube that he had experimented with, that was orange and soft and gooey. I remember loading those, and it was messy...more messy than Speed Green. I mention all this, cause after shooting about 80 rounds of those (half didn't want to cycle well, dang SWC), the action was a greasy, sloppy mess. Makes me appreciate SL68B all that much more.

    OK, that's all, just sharing a real good range visit yesterday.
    I went to the range again...today.
    I shot the rest of the blue dot loads (about 300).
    I brought a pistol (S&W mod 57) along as well as the Henry.

    When shooting the 208gr hand swaged Brass jacketed ammo, I didn't have any pressure spikes/flattened primers from the Rifle (yesterday or today), But when shooting the pistol I had some flat primers with the pistol. It happened about 1 in ten rounds, and I could feel a increase in recoil on those, and I'd get a flyer. Two of them pierced the primer. I was able to recover some of those bullets. The ones shot from the Henry, had deep rifling cuts with soot (blowby?). The ones shot from the S&W 57 had shallower rifling cuts, shiney and not sooty, and you could see the base was cupped (obturated, I'm guessing?).

    The clinched it, no more Blue dot.
    On the plus side, I got 500 empty cases

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    But when shooting the pistol I had some flat primers with the pistol. It happened about 1 in ten rounds, and I could feel a increase in recoil on those, and I'd get a flyer. Two of them pierced the primer. I was able to recover some of those bullets. The ones shot from the Henry, had deep rifling cuts with soot (blowby?). The ones shot from the S&W 57 had shallower rifling cuts, shiney and not sooty, and you could see the base was cupped (obturated, I'm guessing?).

    The clinched it, no more Blue dot.
    On the plus side, I got 500 empty cases
    Very similar to what I have experienced.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master madsenshooter's Avatar
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    Some of the most accurate loads I've shot out of my Krag rifles had Blue Dot behind them. I even used it behind the Hornady 123gr .310 diameter V-max at Camp Perry one year and didn't do bad. It was also the first powder I used for cast bullet shooting. I'd been packing that partial bottle every time I moved for years. I also ruined a Ruger Bisley in 45LC using it along with 45 Win Mag load data. The cylinder of the Bisley was strong enough for magnum loads, but the barrel thickness ahead of the frame wasn't up to magnum pressures. The blueing got a bit frosty!
    "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  5. #45
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Tried my first foray into Blue Dot territory today, 14 grains behind an RCBS 190 grain GC in 30-06. Shot very well, zero pressure signs. Actually a little on the low side for pressure, just a smudge of smoke on the neck. At the price I paid, I figure my powder cost is ~.001 per shot, 2 1/2 cents for primer, 3 cents for gas check which I probably don't need and range lead mixed with gifted telephone lead makes an accurate, easy shooting load for ~ 7 cents a shot.

    It is just a little sharper recoil than the 16 grains of 2400 I have be using but the accuracy I think may have been better.

    Thanks all!

  6. #46
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    I just read Tracy's comments about Sea Fire's BD loads (post #41) and I highly recommend googling Sea Fire and his BD load data. That data is reliable as long as you follow his guidelines on how to work up a load. Btw, his suggestions produced very accurate results in my Type 56 SKS with a C.E. Harris designed CB.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinMN View Post
    Perhaps you could share "Why" to NOT use it in a 41 Mag from your perspective?

    There are loads listed for it. You have my curiosity going.


    Just one example of them:

    Powder Cartridge Bullet wt./Grains Max Load Vel. OAL Press. Load Source
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AL Blue Dot 41 Remington Magnum 200 200 HP 14 1470 1.58 36000 Alliant
    AL Blue Dot 41 Remington Magnum 220 220 JHP 12.5 1365 1.57 35800 Alliant
    AL Blue Dot 41 Remington Magnum 210 210 JSP 13.5 1425 1.57 33800 Alliant

    Source: http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/re...okup-by-powder
    Powder warning from the company. I bought it for use in a Blackhawk 41 Mag, actually 2 of them, and never had a problem. I still use it for them
    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
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    sed nomini tuo da gloriam

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    but to thy name give the glory.)
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  8. #48
    Boolit Master

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    I ran across some old data using Blue Dot and 158gr in a 38sp so started messing with it. Very dirty in that application at least for me
    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
    Bastiat

    Sic transit gloria mundi ( the glory of man is fleeting)
    Whispered in Julius Caesars ear before every speech to remind him that everything comes to an end.

    Non nobis Domine,
    non nobis,
    sed nomini tuo da gloriam

    (Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us,
    but to thy name give the glory.)
    Knights Templar

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    I don't have a .357 Magnum anymore, but, when I did, Blue Dot was my preference with 158 grain SWCs. That was long enough ago that my remaining Blue Dot canisters say "Hercules" on them!


  10. #50
    Boolit Master



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    "I don't have a .357 Magnum anymore..."

    To each his own. No .357 magnum seems like the worst possible choice in this world.
    "Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
    James. C. Henderson

  11. #51
    Boolit Master GRid.1569's Avatar
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    I'm sure a while back (10 years or more) there was a warning not to use Blue Dot in .357 with 125 grain bullets (jacketed)... this was after the Hercules transition to Alliant.... but back in the good old days BD was my preferred powder for 9mm and moderate .357's
    May we achieve our aims....

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmort View Post
    No .357 magnum seems like the worst possible choice in this world.
    It may seem so to some, but I've honestly never missed having one, and have never had "the wants" for another.
    As you said, to each his own.


  13. #53
    Boolit Master bbailey7821's Avatar
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    It's the Bee's Knee for 38 Super

  14. #54
    I went through 60 rounds of 38 Special in a GP100 yesterday afternoon that were loaded with Blue Dot. I've relegated them to practice now instead of matches because in the matches I'd go through a few hundred at a time. Having loaded them at a much tamer power for hitting multiple steel plates, I was getting unburned powder under the star extractor which would make it difficult for the cylinder to turn as the day went on. I eventually settled on True Blue for matches, but the Blue Dot is still gonna be used for practicing because not as many rounds are fired at a time during practice.

  15. #55
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    I use Bluedot in several of my handgun loads, but I really like it under a 240 gr. LRNFP, a bit over 15.0 grains loads, in my Puma .44 Magnum.

    IIRC, the warning about Bluedot in the 41 Magnum was that some loads were occasionally spiky, not every load, not every time...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  16. #56
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by mdi View Post
    ........
    IIRC, the warning about Bluedot in the 41 Magnum was that some loads were occasionally spiky, not every load, not every time...
    The actual report from the Alliant technicians was "pressure spiking has been reported ". When queried those technicians also stated they had not found said "pressure spiking" nor was it an industry finding. However they issued the warning just to be safe (CYA).

    In all my pressure testing of Blue Dot in the 357 and 44 magnum I have not seen any evidence of spiking.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA really likes Blue Dot for .44 Mag (Desert Eagle) .44 AutoMag,
    .45 Win Mag for AMT and Grizzley pistols.
    Last edited by GONRA; 08-20-2017 at 04:42 PM.

  18. #58
    Boolit Man
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    I use it in 45acp and colt.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel4k View Post
    .223 Rem w/ 40gr Vmax. 3000 fps, just under maximum pressure & unbelievable accuracy. Google poster 'Seafire' if interested.
    According to Quickload, you can reach 3000fps without coming close to max pressure, using that bullet/powder combo.
    I shoot so that I can handload.

  20. #60
    Boolit Bub
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    I use a 18.5 gr load under a dry wool wad & a HB45 sabot with 200gr XTP bullets in my .45 sml. I get 3/8" ctc ragged one hole groups at 50 yds, love it!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check