SBH consistently puts two shots low out of the group

[hockeyref]

SO, the question is, where do I look for a cause and how to fix it. I have not dropped pin gauges into the barrel or cylinder yet.

I pulled the old 44 mag SBH long barreled silhouette gun out of the safe this past weekend. First time it's been shot in 20 years. I saw a distinct pattern develop as I checked targets. It was really windy so I wasn't concerned with the horizontal stringing, but two of six shots were consistently low and the pattern was consistent at 25, 50, and 100 yards. I don't recall if I noticed this 25 years ago when I shot steel.

Had some fairly heavy lead in the forcing cone and first two inches of the barrel. From what I remember this was normal for this pistol as none of the old timers I shot with back in the day knew or cared to share the "voodoo" required to make a revolver shoot without leading up. I'm deciding what to do with this pistol. The front sight is off by several degrees so it will either need to go back to Ruger, or out to a competent revolver-smith to properly time the front sight to 12 o'clock. I didn't mind it when I shot IHMSA as it allowed for a natural hand\arm angle in creedmoore and I just paid attention to it when shooting off my hind legs. Now, it kinda annoys me so I want it fixed. I mention this because it will have to be corrected prior to any kind of fire lapping, and the correction may preclude firelapping.

FWIW the loads were all with components purchased in the 1990's. the WW296 was an unopened can from 1992:

240gr PENN cast SWC .430".
8.5 gr Unique
CCI 350


220gr Sierrra FPJ
24gr WW296
CCI 350

220gr Sierra 25 yds (this is a 6 shot group)



240gr Penn 50 yds



240gr Penn 100 yds

[white eagle]

2 low or not that is still fine shooting
good job

[lefty o]

the front sight being off is ruger's inability to properly index a barrel when they built the gun. fairly common for them. then and now.

[hockeyref]

Yup, Well aware Ruger's inability to index their barrels. Part of the reason I am hesitant to send it back to them. I want it fixed and perfectly aligned, not made to be "within tolerances". Same reason I would send it without the trigger, hammer, and springs - the trigger is where I like it and it's definitely not a "lawyer lever".

[Dusty Bannister]

Consider slugging the cylinder to see if you have two that are not the same as the others. Then also consider having the throats honed to be uniform. That might be part of the problem. That might also provide a clue as to the fit of the bullet in the cylinder throat as a cause of the leading.

[lefty o]

if you want it done right, find a good revolver smith, dont send it to ruger.

[hockeyref]

Working on measuring the cylinder. Sierra Bullets drop straight thru all chambers without touching, the cast Penn's stop in the throats. Gonna slug the chambers later this week.

As for finding a revolver smith. No idea who is out there and is reasonable - Note that reasonable also includes lead time. I ain't gonna wait a year or two to get it done. The pistol will go back to Ruger multiple times first.

[DougGuy]

That's what uneven cylinder throats cause. I fix those.

When Ruger did that cylinder they used a Hitachi machine with 3 cutters, plunge 3 throats, index the cylinder one hole, plunge the other 3. As cutters wear down, they cut smaller and smaller throats. When one gets too worn to use, they would replace it with a new one but if the others still had some life in them they would leave them and only replace them when they were finally worn the _ out.

Since each cutter cut a pair of throats, adjacent to one another, this means a lot of cylinders got shipped with 3 pairs of throats, all a different size. The new cutter often would cut .432"+ throats while the throats on either side could be .429" to .431" so this is quite common.

Uneven throats cause pressure variations and cause the gun to recoil differently in the hands of the shooter from shot to shot, which causes it to shoot to different points of impact, even though all shots were fired at the same point of aim.

I ream cylinders to correct this, if none of the existing throats are over .4315" I would recommend reaming and honing them to .4315" ~ .4318" and sizing your boolits to .431" if any of the throats are already larger than the .4315" reamer, I have a .4325" reamer and they will finish at .4325" ~ .4328" and boolits should be sized to .432" this will get rid of your flyers.

The pistol will go back to Ruger multiple times first.

Ruger will NOT address uneven throats. They will fire the gun with 3 factory lead loads and if it groups well enough they will send it right on back to you without doing nothing but wasting your time and your shipping money.

[hockeyref]

Doug
Thanks for the feed back. Definitely considering the cylinder work if for no other reason than to make them uniform. Never expected Ruger to fix that. I want the front sight where its supposed to be - at 12:00, not 11:57..... Have read too many accounts of guys sending them in with front sights off line and them getting returned with a note the they were within tolerance.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

If you do send it back to Ruger they will not just put a new front sight on it they will rebarrel it

[Drm50]

I have bought dozens of Blackhawks new back in 60s. Never had any of the issues that you guys
are talking about. When OP says old he is still talking about a New Model. I have bought exactly
one New Model Blackhawk, 357/9mm Convertable, it was shabby compared to a 3screw. I never
bought another new Ruger SA after that. That was 40 some yrs ago and they just have gone to
pot on QC since. Brother Bill Ruger is probably spinning in his grave over today's Ruger quality.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Maybe, but he was also a massive stick in the mud. Many of the great new Ruger revolver and autoloader models we have now . To say nothing of some of the awesome M77s now available would never have seen the light of day under Bill Ruger. Nowadays we can buy 5 shot Stainless Bisley's in 480 and 454 . That never would have happened. Also 4" Redhawks in 44mag and 45 Colt. He vowed he would allow a 4" 44 mag to be sold . Ect. Ect. Plus the barrels on old Rugers were at best a luck of the draw. Bill Ruger brought cast steel to fruition for making GREAT actions . And he was quite a business man . But, alot of his ideas were , strange.

[DougGuy]

I have bought dozens of Blackhawks new back in 60s. Never had any of the issues that you guys
are talking about.

Did you ever slug throats and mic with a decent micrometer, or pin throats with pin gages? OM cylinders are just as uneven as any of them, it's the machinery they were made on. Reamers were replaced when they wore slam out and not before.

[NSB]

I had a Ruger back in the 80s that did what your gun is doing. I marked one chamberr and used it as the basis for seeing where each chamber printed on paper. I had two that were always out of the group. I contacted Ruger about it and told them that the gun would shoot two shots out of the group and it was always from the same chambers, not my shooting. They said send it back. I got it back with a new cylinder and it shot unbelievable. I shot a 77x80 with that gun at the IHMSA Internationals and I didn't even have a spotter for that event. Mark one so you know which one is #1, 2,3, etc and see what happens. Good luck.

[MT Gianni]

Start with a pencil. Mark your cylinder so you index the same each time. Set a target of 6 bullseyes and shoot one cartridge at each. Index the cylinder and repeat 5 times. By now you should know which holes are grouping where. You can then figure out the problem and actions needed.

[hockeyref]

There is an index mark already on the cylinder face and I did index the same cylinder as #1 for each group with my wife was on the scope. She had some difficulty keeping track of individual impacts and said it was a lot easier when we were hitting steel animals. I'm going to do the 6 target rotation and see what I get. 50 yards should suffice, I went out to 100 yards to force some separation of the groups.

For those interested, The wind was blowing 6-9 mph so I was not concerned with horizontal spread at all. The 100 yard target is a re-purposed NRA SR-C 200 yard High Power repair center.

Aiming Black diameter-(inches)--Rings width-(inches)
X ring--------3.00----------- 1.50
10 ring-------7.00----------- 2.00
9 ring-------13.00----------- 3.00
8 ring--------19.00---------3.00

horizontal spread 14.75 c to c
vertical spread 6.125 c to c
Low 4 I believe were from cylinders 4 & 6. We'll see how it plays out, the clouds going over and changing the light could be enough to cause those 4 low shots.

[hockeyref]

Well I hit the range this weekend.

I shot 20 rounds of 130gr Nosler ballistic tips out of my Contender BullBerry 12" bull barrel 300 Savage. I shot 165gr btsp for silhouettes, how in the heck did i shoot upwards of 100 rounds of 300savage, then 200 rounds of 44mag with 23.5g AA#9 and not have a sore wrist for a week?

I have decided that my bench technique with a pistol sucks. i was resting the frame on the bags and using a big target. I tried to shoot 6 targets, one round from each chamber - i shot patterns After wasting 80 rounds i switched to a small orange dot and only letting the edge of my right palm & wrist, and my elbow touch the bag. things tightened up a bunch. By then i ran out of ammo.

The pic is the last 12 rounds of 128 rounds fired on the day. 20 300 savage, ten heavy 158 swc loads from my 2 1/4" sp101 and 98 from the SRH. Yeah I was a bit masochistic on Sunday.

Oh and I've determined that I need new cases. So far I fired 170 shots since pulling this pistol out and I've had 50 cases split - old tired and left over from IHMSA shooting. Gonna order 200 cases tonight.


This is a 12 shot group NOT 11
240 gr SWC Penn
8.5gr Unique



I want to try some 240 or 250 gr cast Boolits sized at .431" but I don't cast yet. Maybe try a gas check boolit too, but I need to find somewhere to buy a couple. once I try them out I might ask fro advice on a Mold.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

When ordering Beartooth Boolits. You can specify the exact diameter. There maybe other retail sales casting outfits that also provide that service. I don't know. But, that way you could find out what diameter is best in your revolver.
Others may disagree, but I've always found that a 300+gr boiler or bullet @ 1200 fps was much more comfortable to shoot than a 240ish gr bullet @ 1400+fps.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

when I get my 44 mag SBH the first thing i'll do is check the cyl. and send it to doug to have them all evened out if need be. I want revolver for serious hog/deer hunting. plus maybe elk/bison/or moose one day!-Travis