Who hunts with cast HP?

[Tripplebeards]

What purpose dose the HP fall into in the cast boolit world (plinking, self defence?)since large FL meplate seems like the goto boolit? Do any of you posters use cast HP for hunting, predator control, or varminting? And if so what were the the results? Run offs, DRT, look like a grenade him them? Any carnage photos?
I would love to hear the stories...good or bad. I, myself, am personally interested in 44 mag, 45 colt, and 450 bushmaster hollow point use.

[Markopolo]

I use these in my 308...

Varget and a custom Noe 200gr HP is deadly for feeder blackies... there is support to be a pic here of a feeder black bear, but for some reason it keeps failing to upload... will try to edit it tomorrow...

[Tripplebeards]

I use these in my 308...

Varget and a custom Noe 200gr HP is deadly for feeder blackies... there is support to be a pic here of a feeder black bear, but for some reason it keeps failing to upload... will try to edit it tomorrow...

Any carnage photos and how far they traveled after the shot?

[Markopolo]

Well, this springs bear laid there and bellowed for a bit as I spined him, took a full 45 sec to finish his moans... but with bears, there is very little blood outside of the body in my experience... that is why you want them DRT, not much of a blood trail. But on the inside, I have a pic of him hanging with his skin off.. I will try to upload....

[Markopolo]

Actually the bear shows very little of the shot... it is on the other side of his spine... you can just barely make out the start of bloodshot just above the boiler room on the other side... needless to say... boom, down...

[Fenring]

Shot a bunch of hogs with the .44 Lyman Devastator, out of my Ruger 96/44. Cast from air cooled clip on wheel weights at at around 1650fps MV, expansion is violent, with the nose section typically peeling right off, leaving the base to continue on, sometimes found under the skin on the opposite side. Mine are 275gr ready to load, retained weight without the nose section weighs is around 175gr. Smaller pigs and smaller animals like foxes are normally torn wide open.

[Tripplebeards]

Well, this springs bear laid there and bellowed for a bit as I spined him, took a full 45 sec to finish his moans... but with bears, there is very little blood outside of the body in my experience... that is why you want them DRT, not much of a blood trail. But on the inside, I have a pic of him hanging with his skin off.. I will try to upload....

Sweet. I've harvested three black bear now. Watched 16 get harvested in one season with dog runners back in 01'. Only saw one nasty blood bath from a 300 RUM using 180g nosler ballistic tips and only one DRT from a 180g swift scirocco that I shot. Broke the front legs and bone fragments did the rest. The last one I harvested I shot broadside 1" behind the front should center mass. The bear went about 40 yards. About 20 pencil eraser drops of blood. Shot it with a 200g nosler partition from my RUm again. The fat sealed the hole up but when I skinned it there was a coffee can size hole on both size of the ribs bullet size hole in and out through the hide.

[Markopolo]

I think this is the pic... finally

This was shot with the 308 custom HP from NOE... number 2 alloy... about 35 yards... actually, my backup shooter was disappearing with only but and elbows showing when I shot him... kinda spooky in heavy brush... lol.. but when you remove the hair, head and claws, they don't look so tuff...lol

[Larry Gibson]

I've hunted with cast HP'd bullets for 40+ years. I have killed many deer, a few pigs and a few elk with them. I also have killed many varmints with HP'd cast bullets. I started in '68 with Lyman's 311041HP for the .308W and a 311410HP for the 30 Carbine. I still have the 311041HP which has also been an excellent hunting bullet in the 30-30, 30-06, 300 Savage, 308 CBC and several other .30 cal cartridges. The 311041HP also has been excellent in some .31 cals with groove diameter not over .311. I've used the 311041HP in all action types. I gave up on the 311410HP after several years and a lot of testing as, being a PB'd bullet, accuracy wasn't acceptable above 1600 fps.

It took several years testing and actual results to understand the necessity of having a correct balance of alloy, HP shape and depth of the HP for best terminal performance in game. With big game expansion with weight retention and not sloughing off the expansion petals was desired and gave the best terminal effect. In varmints maximum expansion with the nose petals blowing off inside the animal was best.....just like it's thin skinned jacketed bullet counter parts. While it wasn't rocket science it was a learning curve as there was no internet back then so progress was somewhat slower because information was not always readily available.

For big game I've found GC'd bullets cast of softer malleable alloys perform best. If velocities are 1150 - 1400 fps I use a 20-1 alloy, with 1400 - 1600 fps I use a 16-1 alloy. Maximum range for expansion is going to be dependent on the HP shape and depth. I have one HP pistol mould which is the Lyman 44 Devastator. Cast of 16-1 alloy weight retention is excellent with superb expansion. I use it in revolvers and a Contender. Other handgun bullets from .32 to .45 calibers are HP'd with the Forster HP 1/8" tool. The depth of the HP is dependent on what the bullet is to be used on. The HP can also be opened up easily with counter sinks for more rapid violent expansion. This has been very successful with the 313631, the 358156 and the 452490 in handguns when cast of 20-1 alloy (sometimes 30 or even 40-1 in the 32 S&WL, The 38 SPL and the 45 ACP. The only PB'd bullet I HP is for the 44 SPL (Skeeter's load) using a 44-250-K cast of 20-1. Here is the Devastator cast I use, and a 45 ACP HP'd with the 1/8" Forster then enhanced with a counter sink.

Attachment 199004

For HP cast bullet use with velocities of 1600 - 2200+ fps I use a ternary alloy. I use COWWs +2% tin and then mixed 50/50 with pure lead. I usually AC the bullets. They are GC'd, and lubed with a soft lube such as Lar's 50/50 or 2500+ as cast. They are then sized in push through sizers if needed. That alloyed cast bullets can be pushed to 2200+ fps (in appropriate twist barrels) with excellent hunting accuracy (2 moa out to my max range of 200 yards) but the barrels must be cleaned every 8 rounds or so because fouling will accumulate and accuracy will get worse to about 4-5 moa. Using a clean barrel (or fouled with one or two shots) is not a problem when hunting because if I've not got the game in those 8 shots I might as well quit hunting and go to Burger King.......

With the 311316 (118 gr 32-20 GC'd) or the 313631 (105 gr SWC 32 GC'd H&R) bullets cast of COWWs + 2%tin, AC'd, HP'd with the 1/8" Forster 1/2 the length of the bullet and pushed at 1900 - 1950 fps out of the M1 carbine have proven deadly on coyote and lessor varmints. They would also be excellent for PD, especially in the shorter range urban/suburban environment.

Attachment 198998

For use on game I have found bullets of 7mm up through .375 cast of the COWW + 2% tin & mixed 50/50 alloy HP'd with the Forster 1/8" to a depth of 3/16" and pushed at 2000 - 2200+ fps give optimal terminal performance on game. Here is an example of the 35-200-FN cast of that alloy, HP'd with the Forster and loaded to 2150 fps. The Texas 4 point (8 points to you easterners) weight about 150 on the hoof. You can see the terminal effect. Range was 90+ yards and he was essentially DRT staggering 15 - 20 yards sideways and going down. The 35 Rem with bullet before and after HPing. The deer, the exit outside, exit inside, entrance inside and entrance outside. That is very typical of the wounds with .30 through .35 caliber HP'd cast bullets as I use them.

Attachment 199005Attachment 199006Attachment 199007Attachment 199008Attachment 199009Attachment 199010

For the smaller deer the HP can be enhanced with a counter sink for improved terminal effect.

I consider the use of HP'd cast bullets to be specialty bullets which are used for hunting. I use the solid bullets for general shooting so multi cavity moulds w/o the HP pins work for me. HPing 50 - 100 of them with the Forster for the limited hunting use isn't that difficult.

[Larry Gibson]

Sorry folks, the "edit" function is totally screwed up. It's not allowing me to edit and has double posted when I tried. It won't let me delete post #9 either.......

To continue......

For the smaller deer the HP can be enhanced with a counter sink for improved terminal effect......here is a 45 ACP HP'd with the 1/8" Forster then the HP is enhanced with the counter sink. For big game I use this method on .375 and 45 caliber bullets (375 H&H and 45-70) with the HP enhanced to a lessor degree.

I consider the use of HP'd cast bullets to be specialty bullets which are used for hunting. I use the solid bullets for general shooting so multi cavity moulds w/o the HP pins work for me. HPing 50 - 100 of them with the Forster for the limited hunting use isn't that difficult. However, the increased terminal performance has proven it's worth to me.

Larry Gibson

P.S.; I backed out of forum, came back in, posted on another thread, edited on that post, came back here and it worked.......

[white eagle]

I have always thought a hp for whitetailed deer is a nice option to have when
hunting in my neck of the woods
I want to try and match the performance of jacketed expanding bullets for their
terminal effects on game
I also believe cast boolits are far superior in some cals
I also agree with Larry's recommendations on alloy and hp design
love this line as well

" because if I've not got the game in those 8 shots I might as well quit hunting and go to Burger King......."

[Larry Gibson]

Let's try the pictures one more time.....

Attachment 198999Attachment 199000Attachment 199001

Larry Gibson

[Markopolo]

Now THAT is VERY cool... gotta get me one of those...

[Smoke4320]

"For HP cast bullet use with velocities of 1600 - 2200+ fps I use a ternary alloy. I use COWWs +2% tin and then mixed 50/50 with pure lead. I usually AC the bullets"
Quoted from Larrys post today and per Larrys instructions to me about 4 years ago.
Since our discussions on alloys the above it want I have used to harvest about 12 white tails with HP cast bullets in 300 blackout both super and subsonic, 30 and 357 Herrett (contender pistols) and 45-70 plus a few with CVA Omega 50 cal Black powder
Oh I forgot 358 Winchester too.. I was so so happy with that one First time out with it a nailed a nice 8 point

only 1 when more than a few feet, most DRT, the only one traveling was with a 196 LB buck shot at about 70-75 yds with a 30 Herrett contender pistol.
he made it about 40 yds... dead heart shot

most of my molds are NOE or MP and I use the deep hollow point pins .. PS all mine are powdercoated

[HiVelocity]

Sent you a PM

HV

[Tripplebeards]

I've hunted with cast HP'd bullets for 40+ years. I have killed many deer, a few pigs and a few elk with them. I also have killed many varmints with HP'd cast bullets. I started in '68 with Lyman's 311041HP for the .308W and a 311410HP for the 30 Carbine. I still have the 311041HP which has also been an excellent hunting bullet in the 30-30, 30-06, 300 Savage, 308 CBC and several other .30 cal cartridges. The 311041HP also has been excellent in some .31 cals with groove diameter not over .311. I've used the 311041HP in all action types. I gave up on the 311410HP after several years and a lot of testing as, being a PB'd bullet, accuracy wasn't acceptable above 1600 fps.

It took several years testing and actual results to understand the necessity of having a correct balance of alloy, HP shape and depth of the HP for best terminal performance in game. With big game expansion with weight retention and not sloughing off the expansion petals was desired and gave the best terminal effect. In varmints maximum expansion with the nose petals blowing off inside the animal was best.....just like it's thin skinned jacketed bullet counter parts. While it wasn't rocket science it was a learning curve as there was no internet back then so progress was somewhat slower because information was not always readily available.

For big game I've found GC'd bullets cast of softer malleable alloys perform best. If velocities are 1150 - 1400 fps I use a 20-1 alloy, with 1400 - 1600 fps I use a 16-1 alloy. Maximum range for expansion is going to be dependent on the HP shape and depth. I have one HP pistol mould which is the Lyman 44 Devastator. Cast of 16-1 alloy weight retention is excellent with superb expansion. I use it in revolvers and a Contender. Other handgun bullets from .32 to .45 calibers are HP'd with the Forster HP 1/8" tool. The depth of the HP is dependent on what the bullet is to be used on. The HP can also be opened up easily with counter sinks for more rapid violent expansion. This has been very successful with the 313631, the 358156 and the 452490 in handguns when cast of 20-1 alloy (sometimes 30 or even 40-1 in the 32 S&WL, The 38 SPL and the 45 ACP. The only PB'd bullet I HP is for the 44 SPL (Skeeter's load) using a 44-250-K cast of 20-1. Here is the Devastator cast I use, and a 45 ACP HP'd with the 1/8" Forster then enhanced with a counter sink.

Attachment 199004

For HP cast bullet use with velocities of 1600 - 2200+ fps I use a ternary alloy. I use COWWs +2% tin and then mixed 50/50 with pure lead. I usually AC the bullets. They are GC'd, and lubed with a soft lube such as Lar's 50/50 or 2500+ as cast. They are then sized in push through sizers if needed. That alloyed cast bullets can be pushed to 2200+ fps (in appropriate twist barrels) with excellent hunting accuracy (2 moa out to my max range of 200 yards) but the barrels must be cleaned every 8 rounds or so because fouling will accumulate and accuracy will get worse to about 4-5 moa. Using a clean barrel (or fouled with one or two shots) is not a problem when hunting because if I've not got the game in those 8 shots I might as well quit hunting and go to Burger King.......

With the 311316 (118 gr 32-20 GC'd) or the 313631 (105 gr SWC 32 GC'd H&R) bullets cast of COWWs + 2%tin, AC'd, HP'd with the 1/8" Forster 1/2 the length of the bullet and pushed at 1900 - 1950 fps out of the M1 carbine have proven deadly on coyote and lessor varmints. They would also be excellent for PD, especially in the shorter range urban/suburban environment.

Attachment 198998

For use on game I have found bullets of 7mm up through .375 cast of the COWW + 2% tin & mixed 50/50 alloy HP'd with the Forster 1/8" to a depth of 3/16" and pushed at 2000 - 2200+ fps give optimal terminal performance on game. Here is an example of the 35-200-FN cast of that alloy, HP'd with the Forster and loaded to 2150 fps. The Texas 4 point (8 points to you easterners) weight about 150 on the hoof. You can see the terminal effect. Range was 90+ yards and he was essentially DRT staggering 15 - 20 yards sideways and going down. The 35 Rem with bullet before and after HPing. The deer, the exit outside, exit inside, entrance inside and entrance outside. That is very typical of the wounds with .30 through .35 caliber HP'd cast bullets as I use them.

Attachment 199005Attachment 199006Attachment 199007Attachment 199008Attachment 199009Attachment 199010

For the smaller deer the HP can be enhanced with a counter sink for improved terminal effect.

I consider the use of HP'd cast bullets to be specialty bullets which are used for hunting. I use the solid bullets for general shooting so multi cavity moulds w/o the HP pins work for me. HPing 50 - 100 of them with the Forster for the limited hunting use isn't that difficult.

Larry, I just pulled the trigger on a 44 devastator mold. $63 plus shipping at natchez today. I know I need handles and what else? All I have ever owned are the entry level lee molds to date.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, I just pulled the trigger on a 44 devastator mold. $63 plus shipping at natchez today. I know I need handles and what else? All I have ever owned are the entry level lee molds to date.

What firearm?

Do you dip or bottom pour (if dip, what dipper)?

Do you have GCs (If not I suggest the Hornady's)?

How do you lube and size?

I suggest BAC or NRA50/50 lube (both available from LeStuff.com).

Do you have H110 or Winchester 296 powder?

Larry Gibson

[white eagle]

I have one of those molds
it works just fine not a mass producer but it meets my needs

[Tripplebeards]

Both h110 and w296 in the house along with hornady GCs. I PC but also made my own lube that posted a few months back. I plan on PCing with smokes power. What size handles do I need for the mold? Will my lee handles work? Dose it come with pins to form the HP cavity? I pour with a lee hand held dipper scooped from a 10lb pot. I have a lee sizer. I run my bullets though it and and add a GC after PCing. What's the push pin used for and I would assume I need one and it doesn't come with? My lube I made is kinda like the old nra lube plus stp oil additive if I remember.

I have 4, 44's. A new ruger 77/44 which will mainly be what ill use this for along with my colt andaconda. I also have a ruger 44 semi auto carbine and a s&w nite guard.


I saw this pic of them next to the lee 310 that I make and the wide meplate on the devistator sold me....

https://mobile.twitter.com/superelkh...58199825715202

[Cheshire Dave]

I have settled on the Lyman 457122 Gould hollow point for my 45-70. The 1st Blacktail I hit with it the nose blew off inside and the shank went out the far shoulder. Nice neat holes though both shoulder blades and alot of damage in between. The shank weighs about 200 grains after losing the nose. Since then I have gone from stright WW to 50/50 WW and soft lead with a little tin to help them fill out. 42 grains of 3031 is my favorite load. Going to "Beagle" the mold and try at .459 or larger in my Marlin.