Inline FabricationReloading EverythingRepackboxTitan Reloading
Lee PrecisionWidenersRotoMetals2Load Data
MidSouth Shooters Supply
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: 50 cal bullets for deer: solid flat point or HP?

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    76

    50 cal bullets for deer: solid flat point or HP?

    Ohio has finally legalized all straight walled cartridges 357 to 50 cal for deer hunting. This makes using an AR in 50 Beowulf now a legal possibility! If I were trying to take deer out to 300 yards with the Beowulf, would I be better suited with a heavy (350-400+ grains) wide meplat bullet moving slower, or an HP moving a little faster? My thinking is that the hard cast flat point, even at 300 yards moving about 1000 FPS, would be a better killer than a lighter HP moving about 1100 fps at the same distance. Does anyone have any experience to support or disprove that?

    Lets skip the conversation about whether I can hit a deer's vitals at that range, or what the drop is on that bullet. I practice a lot, and I'm using an AR with a good scope. Drop is only 4.5-6 mils at 300 yards, so lets assume I can hit it.

    Thanks for the input!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Quilcene, Washington
    Posts
    3,663
    170 gr 50 cal patched round ball has been dropping deer in their tracks for almost 200 years. I don't think it much matters which you use as long as the boolit is going about 850 fps or more when it arrives at the deer. That is the velocity my PRB is going at 135 yards which is about how far I can get a decent sight picture with legal (that is iron) sights. Currently I am using 130 gr. 45 cal PRBs for my deer hunting and they work just as well but I like 1000 fps terminal velocity. I just wouldn't make your boolits too hard so that they will deposit more energy on impact.
    Last edited by quilbilly; 06-28-2017 at 02:35 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    21,303
    At .50 cal either bullet is going to let a lot of air in and a lot of blood out......

    Larry Gibson

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Deary, Ideeeeeeho
    Posts
    2,392
    ati5029,

    Larry Gibson pretty much says it!

    I have had such awesome results from a 45/70 with a Wide Flat Nose cast on deer and elk, that I would without reservation say FORGET THE HOLLOW POINT!

    That 50cal with a large meplat will get er done!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    Last edited by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot; 06-28-2017 at 03:05 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    3,783
    All 30 calibers aspire to be a fifty!!

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    windber, pa
    Posts
    1,298
    but what about the .510" calibers? like the 50bmg and the 500 linebaugh and the 500 linebaugh max....

    i don't hunt ohio, but i'm just wondering if ohio calls them a 50 cal or 51 cal?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lenawee County , MI
    Posts
    1,324
    I use a 50-70 with a .515 bullet. Since OH legalized the strait walled cartridges it was on the list of approved calibers.

    Jedman

  8. #8
    Vendor Sponsor

    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    7,394
    Quote Originally Posted by atl5029 View Post
    Ohio has finally legalized all straight walled cartridges 357 to 50 cal for deer hunting. This makes using an AR in 50 Beowulf now a legal possibility!
    Umm hmm.. This sounds like a good excuse to justify another gun purchase!

    To be honest I don't know what kind of stability you will get out of either boolit in question at 300yds, don't things change once it goes subsonic?
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  9. #9
    Vendor Sponsor

    Smoke4320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Right here ..at least I was a minute ago
    Posts
    5,046
    Big old bullet going 1000-1100 FPS is going to make a hole weather flat or HP
    [SIZE=4][B]Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy rosst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    127
    instead of assuming . . some pictures of your setup/scope, the bullets you are going to use and some targets of your shooting out to 300yds would be appreciated.

    always willing to look at someones work that is doing something a little different . .. i assume i am not alone there

    R.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    the Ark
    Posts
    5,276
    Quote Originally Posted by atl5029 View Post
    Ohio has finally legalized all straight walled cartridges 357 to 50 cal for deer hunting. This makes using an AR in 50 Beowulf now a legal possibility! If I were trying to take deer out to 300 yards with the Beowulf, would I be better suited with a heavy (350-400+ grains) wide meplat bullet moving slower, or an HP moving a little faster? My thinking is that the hard cast flat point, even at 300 yards moving about 1000 FPS, would be a better killer than a lighter HP moving about 1100 fps at the same distance. Does anyone have any experience to support or disprove that?

    Lets skip the conversation about whether I can hit a deer's vitals at that range, or what the drop is on that bullet. I practice a lot, and I'm using an AR with a good scope. Drop is only 4.5-6 mils at 300 yards, so lets assume I can hit it.

    Thanks for the input!
    Flat point or hollow point? Depends on how hard they are.
    If you can shoot soft boolits consider a big wide flat nose with a not too deep cup point in it. It just won't get any better if soft can give accuracy.

    PS,
    Pro'bly I'll be shooting a Lee or Lyman .50 paper patched in a muzzle loader.
    Last edited by Good Cheer; 06-29-2017 at 06:45 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy

    Tnfalconer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Great falls Montana
    Posts
    203
    My vote would be subsonic with a large bullet. Subsonic bullets bleed less energy over distance. Plus no sonic crack. As has been said, with proper dope and a little practice either will drive a deer into the ground like a tent stake. It doesn't take as much as people think to kill a white tail deer. Terminal ballistics on a 400 grn bullet is somewhere around 350 FPS. You'll likely have twice that even shooting it subsonic. It will look like you walked out there and hit it with a hammer.

    We toyed with all of this some years ago for suppressor applications. We were loading 450grn soft lead subsonics and had good ballistics to about 500 yards with it. It's just a dang hammer.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Deary, Ideeeeeeho
    Posts
    2,392
    The problem with a H.P. is the same as it always has been. For optimum results the velocity needs to match up with the alloy in use.

    Too much velocity or a close in shot and a soft alloy is likely to over expand.

    The reverse of lower velocity or extended range and there may well be no expansion.

    Better to simply go with a large meplat/Wide Flat Nose cast bullet with a good alloy and if expansion occurs, so be it but it is not needed.

    The meplat on a 50 caliber slug will be close to the size of a typical expanded bullet from many typical jacketed bullets.

    A growing pile of deer and 3 elk, all one shot kills and all with a WFN cast.

    Last years elk taken at 161yds. with my 45/70 - 465gr WFN leaving the muzzle at 1650fps.

    It works and the 50cal will, if possible, only be better.

    The before/after image is the 465gr found in my first elk after a quartering shot. The bullet still penetrated about 30" after taking out the big/heavy front upper leg bone. "After" weight 327.9gr.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSCN0732.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	136.3 KB 
ID:	198740Click image for larger version. 

Name:	005.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	22.9 KB 
ID:	198741

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    the Ark
    Posts
    5,276
    Just something to think about when cooking up a recipe...

    My big brother's super accurate 45-70 hunting load is 500 grains of swaged pure soft lead at 1700+FPS.
    There's no need for a flat nose or alloying or lube.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	45-70.JPG 
Views:	27 
Size:	101.7 KB 
ID:	198777

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Gamsek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    509
    BeforeClick image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3883.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	48.5 KB 
ID:	198778
    At 100m into wet paper, subsonic at muzzle, 80%pure, 20%ww plus tin,
    150grs HP 312-159 from MP Molds
    Shoot at 70meters, went 25m, collapsed in 2sec. 300blk

    First I set my velocity, then I adjusted my alloy to that velocity. Now I will use pure lead with tin to get even better expansion. If I move past 2000fps, I will use FP on that same bullet.

  16. #16
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    19,340
    Stick with the flat nose.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Elkins45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    2,414
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamsek View Post
    BeforeClick image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3883.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	48.5 KB 
ID:	198778
    At 100m into wet paper, subsonic at muzzle, 80%pure, 20%ww plus tin,
    150grs HP 312-159 from MP Molds
    Shoot at 70meters, went 25m, collapsed in 2sec. 300blk

    First I set my velocity, then I adjusted my alloy to that velocity. Now I will use pure lead with tin to get even better expansion. If I move past 2000fps, I will use FP on that same bullet.
    In the case of a 30 caliber subsonic bullet I agree that a HP is a useful feature to give a better chance of a quick kill.

    For a 50 it really doesn't matter.
    NRA Endowment Member

    Armed people don't march into gas chambers.

  18. #18
    Moderator
    Texas by God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    14,334
    I don't think it matters either. A .490 patched round ball has no trouble at all making meat if it lands in the vitals.
    Use the one that shoots best & go hunting. When you're admiring your trophy I don't think you'll wonder if the other style would have killed it deader.
    Best, Thomas.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamsek View Post
    BeforeClick image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3883.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	48.5 KB 
ID:	198778
    At 100m into wet paper, subsonic at muzzle, 80%pure, 20%ww plus tin,
    150grs HP 312-159 from MP Molds
    Shoot at 70meters, went 25m, collapsed in 2sec. 300blk

    First I set my velocity, then I adjusted my alloy to that velocity. Now I will use pure lead with tin to get even better expansion. If I move past 2000fps, I will use FP on that same bullet.
    Nice roebuck.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    1,514
    Considering the distance, I would go with the one that is retaining the most energy. At 300 yards you will be depending on penetration more than anything else.

    Could you cast a bullet that would expand at that distance, maybe, but at close range it probably would over expand especially if you hit bone.

    Penetration and that 1/2" hole is what's going to make it happen at 300 yards.

    Motor

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check