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Thread: Jesus says, buy a sword?

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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    Jesus says, buy a sword?

    Luke 22:35-38

    35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

    36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

    38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
    -------------------------

    Yeah, I read the King James...

    Anyway, I have asked about this a hundred times, and have gotten a hundred answers (many answers came from the 'ordained'), none of which I thought fit the character of Jesus, at least not how I understand him?

    I believe in Free Will over Destiny for mortal man. While Jesus was a man, he was also God and knew his destiny. He knew there was no reason for a sword. Why would he tell his Disciples to buy one ...and then the mentioning that they already had two, Jesus says that's enough. If Jesus thinks the group of Disciples should have one sword, why wouldn't Jesus also think each Disciple should have one?

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    The passage makes little sense to me. Jesus would not have advised them to use a sword to protect themselves from the persecution that was to come. That does not fit His way.

    I wonder if sword has a figurative meaning but I do not know what that could be. And why would two be enough?
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    I never forget Peter whipping out his sword and cutting the ear off one of the thugs arresting Jesus. Of course Jesus said to knock it off, but it shows that even after three years of learning from God incarnate, Peter was quick with his sword. He did not sit by with his thumb in his ear. There is so much to learn from the Bible.
    Last edited by jmort; 06-28-2017 at 11:42 AM.

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    The Betrayal of Jesus
    …50“Friend,” Jesus replied, “do what you came for.” Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus, and arrested Him. 51At this, one of Jesus’ companions drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him. “For all who draw the sword will die by the sword.…"
    53Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

    John 18:10
    "Then Simon Peter drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus."

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    "It is enough" possibly means "I have nothing more to say about the matter." Two swords was not enough for 11 guys going in different directions, so I don't think Jesus meant two swords were enough.

    The disciples were a lot like many of today's preppers. Jesus told them (i.e., each of them) to take money (purse), food (bag) and a sword on their future travels and they fixated upon the weapon.

    The sword was for defense against bandits that they might encounter on the roads. Money is necessary while traveling to buy things and food is also needed.

    Things were going to be different for the disciples after Jesus departure and the instructions changed.

    Edit: I have heard people claim the "sword" should be taken figuratively (God's word). But this would demand that everything else Jesus listed should be taken figuratively also. There's not justification for this other than some people do not like weapons.
    Last edited by Ickisrulz; 06-28-2017 at 06:47 PM.

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    For Jesus, the sword was probably as much of a symbol, as it was anything else. Of course it can be used as a weapon of self defense, and no doubt, Satan may well have had something in mind, and then changed it when he saw Christ and the disciples were ready, and knew Christ would not be allowed to be harmed anyway. Much of the Bible leaves us with questions, and only some sort of assumption can really give us much of an answer to some of the questions we have.

    In this instance, the best I can make of it is that when Christ said two swords would be "enough," that he knew something we just don't and the disciples didn't either. Who knows what that might have been? But I'm no great gift to theology, so .... I'm interested to see what those who are more studied than I am have to say on this.

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    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    There was a translation error in that text. Jesus actually said to buy a 45 Automatic.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

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    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I have to admit this one always puzzled me.

    In an age where a modern projectile weapon was a shepherds sling why not slings?

    Why not a staff? Useful for walking in rough terrain, a simple staff can be a handy tool. And someone with some practice with one can give a man with a sword a spirited defense.

    Why is 2 swords enough?

    I do believe I understand the live by the sword and die by it. In my opinion a lot of that goes to mindset. If you are used to being a hammer every problem looks like a nail. Hit it hard enough and it goes away. Eventually that will come back to you though.

    For myself I have no desire to do anyone harm. But I have an absolute desire to live my life on my terms. I will NOT be bullied or dictated to. Yes I am a control freak, and the freak I want to control is me. Just me, with perhaps just a little influence on my wife would be nice now and then.

    And yet we are supposed to be like the lily's of the field, who neither work nor spin.

    Hard to find that level of trust. Working on it but it is hard.

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    Just read a couple of commentaries, it seems the scholars don't know either.
    Last edited by Bzcraig; 06-29-2017 at 12:48 AM.
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    Boolit Master Pine Baron's Avatar
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    Let's try Ehesians 6
    17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
    Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

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    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    It could mean exactly what is says..i.e. Guys, things are at a critical stage and you need to survive it.

    Jesus knew that all the power structure of his time were lining up to get him. He knew his time was running out and his plan for the survival of his ministry and meaning was the band of Apostles. They were plan A and there was no plan B. If they were picked off, everything was for naught. They had to survive.

    Jesus chose not to defend himself by force, but he never said his followers should not as well. The use of self defense by Christians is much debated with some groups being willing to be passive while being slaughtered. There are others, like myself, that will resist evil with my last breath. I don't carry a sword, but I do carry a Smith and Wesson 38.

    Sometimes we over think things.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 06-29-2017 at 01:47 AM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

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    Yes Pine Baron, scripture edifies scripture. Christ comes again in Revelation with a sword coming out His mouth. The writer of Hebrews tells us the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword....in this context the sword seems to be the Spirit.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
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    To me this one says its ok to defend yourself. I had a kung fu school and my wife had that scripture made for me on a plaque. Really interesting point was the disciples were packing, they already had two. I've heard a few preachers picking on Peter about how he would rush into things and he pledge his life to follow Christ and lay down his life. One often overlooked point is Peter threw down when the guard came to get Jesus in the garden. Also most impressive is the cutting of the ear. If a person draws a sword from his left side and cuts on the draw, the servant saw it coming and leaned to get out of the way, but was just a little to slow and Peter got his ear. That servant had some fantastic reflexes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    Yes Pine Baron, scripture edifies scripture. Christ comes again in Revelation with a sword coming out His mouth. The writer of Hebrews tells us the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword....in this context the sword seems to be the Spirit.
    Here is why I think the "sword" is an actual sword.

    1. When the disciples were sent out by Jesus previously, it was a time of great popularity. The disciples were welcomed into peoples' homes where they received shelter, food and protection. Now things had changed and Jesus would be executed as a criminal. He no longer had the popularity he once did. There were also times of serious persecution coming. Because of this, people would not be as willing to bring the disciples into their homes. Therefore, the disciples would be traveling on their own. This required money, food and a form of protection. The country side held dangers.

    2. While Paul spoke of the "Sword of the Spirit" and the author of Hebrews compared the word of God to a sword, this figurative language was used long after these words of Jesus. Jesus never used "sword" to mean the word of God. So there is no logical way the disciples would have concluded Jesus meant the word of God when he said "sword."

    3. If we take "moneybag" and "knapsack" (ESV translations) to be literal, why would we single out "sword" and say he must have meant something different?

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    Matthew 10:34-40 English Standard Version (ESV)

    Not Peace, but a Sword
    34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCP View Post
    Matthew 10:34-40 English Standard Version (ESV)

    Not Peace, but a Sword
    34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
    I am not sure if you posted this in response to what I wrote, but I will provide a comment. In this case there really isn't a way to claim that "sword" is the word of God. He is not meaning a literal sword either. The use of "sword" is in contrast to "peace." Jesus' appearance and message will cause division (often violent) rather than unity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    I am not sure if you posted this in response to what I wrote, but I will provide a comment. In this case there really isn't a way to claim that "sword" is the word of God. He is not meaning a literal sword either. The use of "sword" is in contrast to "peace." Jesus' appearance and message will cause division (often violent) rather than unity.
    What is the opposite of PEACE ? WAR? SWORD? What are enemies?

    The use of "sword" is in contrast to "peace." yes it is

    I think it is a literal SWORD- discord, turmoil, war
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
    Theodore Roosevelt

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    BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCP View Post
    What is the opposite of PEACE ? WAR? SWORD? What are enemies?

    The use of "sword" is in contrast to "peace." yes it is

    I think it is a literal SWORD- discord, turmoil, war
    A literal sword is a big knife made out of metal.

    To use the word "sword" to stand for "discord, turmoil and war" is a figurative use.

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    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    John 18:10
    "Then Simon Peter drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus."
    If we say this is chronological, then Peter would have a sword with him. Jesus just checking?
    Jesus had just stated(not a prediction but advanced facts) that there was immanent danger - destruction of the Temple, etc. Shortly thereafter, the disciples spread out through the lands,per instructions.
    Whatever!

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    Boolit Master Pine Baron's Avatar
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    Or maybe try this;

    2 Corinthians 10:4-5 (ESV)

    4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
    Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

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