Theology forum

[Boaz]

This is the place to discuss your theology opinions .

[Ickisrulz]

This is the place to discuss your theology opinions .

Since the chapel is for "Prayer, praise, and needs" I take it that anything outside of these would go here.

[Preacher Jim]

Yes this is the place to discuss you thoughts
remember theology comes from theos- logos God's word, the study of God's word.

[claude]

Until this has had a good shakedown cruise, I don't envy the moderators seat one bit, I hope the transition goes smoothly.

[Char-Gar]

This will work, IF everybody realizes the Christian faith is a very, very, very big tent with lots of thoughts, theology, notions and opinions, some of which contradict others. Lots of bad theology out there, and some if it might be mine or yours.

Troubles start when somebody believes that their theology, thoughts, notions and opinion are the solid gold, dyed in the wool, absolute, verifiable truth and all others to the contrary are grievous error.

When I was a young Christian lawyer, just converted from raw paganism I read everything I could get my hands on and listened to anything anybody had to say on the matter. I hears lots of "God told me", "God revealed to me", "God taught me", and the "Holy Spirit has shown me". It didn't take me long to come to the conclusion that either God had multiple personality disorder or some of these folks were full of it, for God was showing folks the polar opposite ideas and concepts. After a little prayer and study, I decided that God was OK, but many of his "servants" and mouth pieces were not.

Very quickly, I decided that putting to much stock, in what these folks had to say was stupid or even down right dangerous to my spiritual life. It was then and there, I embarked on a life of independent study and reflection. I have managed to slay a few sacred cows and tip over some apple carts along the way, not to mention irritate some folks really bad.

[UKShootist]

I assume that by the title, the Theology Forum, that it is a place to discuss theology which, by definition, would include the discussion of faiths other than Christianity, or indeed the absence of faith? I think I might get a rough ride for just asking that question.

[OS OK]

I don't imagine it'll be as hard a ride as your getting in the UK right now...I've been waiting for something like this in the Religious arena...this oughta be good!

[dverna]

This will work, IF everybody realizes the Christian faith is a very, very, very big tent with lots of thoughts, theology, notions and opinions, some of which contradict others. Lots of bad theology out there, and some if it might be mine or yours.

Troubles start when somebody believes that their theology, thoughts, notions and opinion are the solid gold, dyed in the wool, absolute, verifiable truth and all others to the contrary are grievous error.

When I was a young Christian lawyer, just converted from raw paganism I read everything I could get my hands on and listened to anything anybody had to say on the matter. I hears lots of "God told me", "God revealed to me", "God taught me", and the "Holy Spirit has shown me". It didn't take me long to come to the conclusion that either God had multiple personality disorder or some of these folks were full of it, for God was showing folks the polar opposite ideas and concepts. After a little prayer and study, I decided that God was OK, but many of his "servants" and mouth pieces were not.

Very quickly, I decided that putting to much stock, in what these folks had to say was stupid or even down right dangerous to my spiritual life. It was then and there, I embarked on a life of independent study and reflection. I have managed to slay a few sacred cows and tip over some apple carts along the way, not to mention irritate some folks really bad.

What he said.

As a recent believer, I see where Char-Gar is coming from. There is a difference between those who have been "indoctrinated" since they were children, and never questioned their religion, and those why have had to "earn" their faith. Part of that process is study and reflection. Part, at least for me, was experiencing great loss and pain, and realizing I did not have the wisdom to deal with it alone. Part of "earning" was learning.

It is one reason I am currently drawn to a nondenominational church. That may change but it where I attend now.

This will be a good forum.

Thanks

[Char-Gar]

I have been called allot of unflattering and some down right nasty names. The only time I was seriously offended was some years back when somebody called me a theologian. I think I shot him, but if I did, it was in Christian love.

[UKShootist]

I have already stated I am an atheist. I feel I must clarify that I do not hate anybody because they are a believer of anything. In fact, AFAIK, I do not hate anybody. I have also claimed to be a 'freethinking' Zen Buddhist for at least 45 years or so. There is no contradiction in this because Zen is more of a philosophy than a religion. It is also the only philosophy that, to me at least, makes sense whether it has a basis in fact or not. My drive is always to seek the truth. that, and 'know thyself'. It helps to recognise that the truth, about anything, including yourself, is sometimes unpleasant and not what you want to hear.

On that basis I look forward to discussions on this forum.

[Char-Gar]

What he said.

As a recent believer, I see where Char-Gar is coming from. There is a difference between those who have been "indoctrinated" since they were children, and never questioned their religion, and those why have had to "earn" their faith. Part of that process is study and reflection. Part, at least for me, was experiencing great loss and pain, and realizing I did not have the wisdom to deal with it alone. Part of "earning" was learning.

It is one reason I am currently drawn to a nondenominational church. That may change but it where I attend now.


This will be a good forum.

Thanks

Most of us who came by faith in Christ as an adult, did so out of a need. Life dealt us a body blow and we decided to rethink our position vis-a-vi Jesus. That was the way it happened for me.

[Pine Baron]

Or a series of body blows, depending on the hardness of your head.

[Char-Gar]

I have already stated I am an atheist. I feel I must clarify that I do not hate anybody because they are a believer of anything. In fact, AFAIK, I do not hate anybody. I have also claimed to be a 'freethinking' Zen Buddhist for at least 45 years or so. There is no contradiction in this because Zen is more of a philosophy than a religion. It is also the only philosophy that, to me at least, makes sense whether it has a basis in fact or not. My drive is always to seek the truth. that, and 'know thyself'. It helps to recognise that the truth, about anything, including yourself, is sometimes unpleasant and not what you want to hear.

On that basis I look forward to discussions on this forum.

In my last church there was a female member who never attended. None-the-less, she got my full pastoral care package and I visited her in her home. She was very interesting and very much into Zen stuff and Yoga. She even had her own facility, taught classes and wrote a book on Texas Yoga, called "Yoga Y'all".

She informed me, she found in her Zen and Yoga all the inner peace and direction she needed. It seemed to work for her, until she developed some bad stage 4 cancer. Her Zen and Yoga rolled snake eyes for her, so she reached out to me.

I did what I could but her years of rejection and taking another road, could not be changed in time keep her from going into a tailspin as she died. She had to much to unlearn and not enough time to do it.

This was not my first experience with people who claimed to be non-believers and who had the Dr. give them the "black spot". All their carefully prepared and well though out objections to orthodox Christianity rolled snake eyes for them. I watched them die, struggling to find faith. Some did and many did not. A faith for living and dieing takes time to develop. If regular deposits are not made, when it comes time to write a check on their faith, it will bounce.

[Char-Gar]

Or a series of body blows, depending on the hardness of your head.

True dat!

[UKShootist]

Here's an issue that has been on my mind for a little while.

Imagine a good and decent man who has lived a full life, done good deeds, has genuinely regretted the 'sins' he has committed and done what he could to remedy them, but has not accepted Christianity. He dies, and presents himself at the Pearly Gates, or whatever scenario you prefer, for judgement, perhaps a judgement he didn't believe he was going to get. OK, he's there in that situation and realises the truth.

Now, by convention of most Christian faiths, had this man accepted Christ as his personal savour on his death bed then he will be saved, whether a good man or a bad man. But corporeal death has suddenly closed the door for such a conversion. It's too late for him, so it seems he is off to hell for all eternity. Consider how long eternity is, it's as long as you could ever imagine, and then it's as long again, and again, ad infinitum. This man might even have been a serial rapist and murderer and is passed into heaven as a result of a deathbed conversion of genuine measure.

I cannot accept that death closes the door on the wishes of a God of love and forgiveness. A God that can forgive the worst criminal on earth but not the decent man. It's a bloody rotten deal.

But I still don't hate any Christian. I will confess to annoyance at the ones who simply condemn me to eternal hell rather than hope that by setting a worthwhile example they might give me cause to convert.

There ya go.

[jmort]

^^^
This is a theological question
If he never heard about Jesus and never had an opportunity to be saved it seems, based on the Bibile, it will be between him and God to work it out as to his place in eternity. The Bible says all people, excepting young children and those with serious "brain" issues, know right and wrong and accordingly that will be the measure. Have you heard about Jesus and The Good News of salvation and rejected it, refused to accept the free gift? The Bible says that would be a very bad end game.

[UKShootist]

I perhaps should have made it clearer in that he had been informed about Jesus, perhaps even lived next door to a church. But did not accept the faith.

[jmort]

That sounds like a bad ending. Rejecting Jesus would be a bad choice. No one on earth can judge that man, but God can and will. I have at least one brother who is not saved and it breaks my heart to think about him. There is still hope as long as he is alive. Which reminds me, I need to pray for the right person to come into his life and lead him to salvation. Comming from me has been fruitless.

[DCP]

^^^
This is a theological question
If he never heard about Jesus and never had an opportunity to be saved it seems, based on the Bibile, it will be between him and God to work it out as to his place in eternity. The Bible says all people, excepting young children and those with serious "brain" issues, know right and wrong and accordingly that will be the measure. Have you heard about Jesus and The Good News of salvation and rejected it, refused to accept the free gift? The Bible says that would be a very bad end game.

Excellent answer

[UKShootist]

That is the part I find difficult. First that the decision has to be made before death, in a world where there are so many religions. Consider the average, decent, Muslim, they do exist BTW and in their millions, who knows of Jesus as a prophet but has been taught that he was not a saviour. If he has lead a good and honourable life, should he still be off to hell, with all those other millions? It seems that the only way a person could reject Jesus is to His face. Then he's off to the other place, and that's fine with me. Is it true Christianity for a good man to face Jesus, and realising the all too obvious truth, that if he asked Jesus for forgiveness it would be denied?