U.S. Fire Arms Co

[Battis]

I recently saw two cap and ball revolvers made by the U.S. Fire Arms Co. in Hartford, CT. Apparently they worked out of the old Colt building, and they made every part, including the screws, on site (they're out of business now). I can find info on their single action revolvers but nothing on the cap and ball guns. Anyone have any info on that branch of the company?
Beautiful guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._F...turing_Company

[JRD]

Battis,
This may be a slightly imperfect history of USFA, but is as I understand things and is probably close to the facts. My information was gathered from several sources who had direct interactions with USFA over the years, and is not from gunshop commando's or internet rumors.
In the mid-late 1990's, US Patent Firearms Co. started in the original Colt building in downtown Hartford. Colt had moved from the downtown factory by the river to West Hartford in the early 90's. The original Colt building was in rough shape, but as part of a city revitalization project, the original Colt building was renovated (not by Colt), including the original Blue Dome with Rampant Colt statue atop it. The renovated factory was turned into mixed use.
US Patent Firearms probably thought it a brilliant coup to move into the original Colt factory and make reproductions of Colt products. The president of USFA was reportedly a big Colt collector with family money to back him up. Their first ads, which I remember reading in Shotgun News prominently featured something to the effect of "Made under the Colt dome...", which gave me the impression they were made by Colt, and yet the Colt company name was nowhere in the ad. I remember being confused by the ad, but it sure looked cool.
Colt sued US Patent Firearms, the exact legal jargon I do not know, but essentially that they were infringing on Colt's trademarks and brand by confusing consumers by saying they were built "under the Colt dome". Whether the suit was won or settled, I don't know, but US Patent Firearms Co. changed their name to US Firearms Co (USFA), and changed their advertising. (Remember historically Colt's was Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Co.)

Now the guns, from what I've heard, the first USFA guns were made from Italian parts that were brought into the US as machined parts and then finished and assembled in Hartford. Later, USFA did buy CNC machinery and started making parts in house. Whether they made every single part in house, I'm skeptical of. Parts like stampings and springs were likely outsourced to specialty stampers or spring winders, but I don't have first hand knowledge here. They plausibly could have machined every machined part in house.

USFA quality was reportedly excellent, probably better than the late 90's-early 2000's Colt's, as Colt was struggling at the time.

From what I've heard, USFA was never a great money maker for the owner and more of a hobby. They had grand plans and reintroduced a fairly faithful copy of the Lightning rifle. Unfortunately that coincided with the Italians and Brazilians introducing lower priced pump rifles nearly simultaneously. I also had heard that USFA had intentions of reproducing the Woodsman and Ace.

Eventually USFA discontinued all Colt repro's and introduced a bizarre 22 semi-auto called the ZIP 22. They were not a success and USFA closed down.

Battis, I typed a whole bunch there, and realized I don't know anything directly pertaining to cap and ball. My intuition makes me think they are in the same category as the early USPFA SAA's copies, imported machined parts finished and assembled in Hartford, but that's just my hypothesis. I'd take a close look at the guns, but I doubt they'd have any proof marks being assembled in Hartford. Make your decision based on the quality of the guns as you observe them. They aren't Colt's and will never be, but were probably well made. If you can get them right, they may be cool to have, but that's your call.

Jason

[Battis]

Good info. Thanks. I'm thinking that the cap and ball revolvers I saw were made from Uberti parts, since the cap and ball guns weren't their biggest product. I gotta say, they're the prettiest cap and ball revolvers I've ever seen. The fit was perfect, the blue was deep and rich, the case hardening colors jumped out at ya (but not in a fake way). The two I saw, an 1861 .36 and a Walker, came with boxes (that I didn't see) and were both unfired. Tempting, since they're pretty rare. I might go back for another look.
I really gotta stay away from that store.

[2152hq]

The few C&B revolvers that USFA 'made' were of Uberti parts that USFA fitted and finished in their shop in HArtford.
The metal finishes were done by Turnbull at the time as were their SAA pistols.

Some of the C&B pistols were sold off polished and 'in the white'. Both singles and matched pairs. I had purchased a couple examples of these in the past. Very careful examination revealed a hint of the original Uberti markings here and there. The fit and polishing was beautiful and they made fine project pieces.
I was told that the C&B just didn't fit into the USFA business plans and the effort was dropped after a few were made,,some to completion, some just to the 'polished and in the white' stage ready for customers order.
They were sold to clear inventory as I was told.

The ones I had were packaged in plain brown cardboard boxes w/inserts and packaging material obviously made for the pistols.
The matched set were two of these boxes inside another box that perfectly contained the smaller two boxes.
Some ink stamped code markings and the like on the outside but no USFA logo or ID that I remember.

[Char-Gar]

Battis,
This may be a slightly imperfect history of USFA, but is as I understand things and is probably close to the facts. My information was gathered from several sources who had direct interactions with USFA over the years, and is not from gunshop commando's or internet rumors.
In the mid-late 1990's, US Patent Firearms Co. started in the original Colt building in downtown Hartford. Colt had moved from the downtown factory by the river to West Hartford in the early 90's. The original Colt building was in rough shape, but as part of a city revitalization project, the original Colt building was renovated (not by Colt), including the original Blue Dome with Rampant Colt statue atop it. The renovated factory was turned into mixed use.
US Patent Firearms probably thought it a brilliant coup to move into the original Colt factory and make reproductions of Colt products. The president of USFA was reportedly a big Colt collector with family money to back him up. Their first ads, which I remember reading in Shotgun News prominently featured something to the effect of "Made under the Colt dome...", which gave me the impression they were made by Colt, and yet the Colt company name was nowhere in the ad. I remember being confused by the ad, but it sure looked cool.
Colt sued US Patent Firearms, the exact legal jargon I do not know, but essentially that they were infringing on Colt's trademarks and brand by confusing consumers by saying they were built "under the Colt dome". Whether the suit was won or settled, I don't know, but US Patent Firearms Co. changed their name to US Firearms Co (USFA), and changed their advertising. (Remember historically Colt's was Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Co.)

Now the guns, from what I've heard, the first USFA guns were made from Italian parts that were brought into the US as machined parts and then finished and assembled in Hartford. Later, USFA did buy CNC machinery and started making parts in house. Whether they made every single part in house, I'm skeptical of. Parts like stampings and springs were likely outsourced to specialty stampers or spring winders, but I don't have first hand knowledge here. They plausibly could have machined every machined part in house.

USFA quality was reportedly excellent, probably better than the late 90's-early 2000's Colt's, as Colt was struggling at the time.

From what I've heard, USFA was never a great money maker for the owner and more of a hobby. They had grand plans and reintroduced a fairly faithful copy of the Lightning rifle. Unfortunately that coincided with the Italians and Brazilians introducing lower priced pump rifles nearly simultaneously. I also had heard that USFA had intentions of reproducing the Woodsman and Ace.

Eventually USFA discontinued all Colt repro's and introduced a bizarre 22 semi-auto called the ZIP 22. They were not a success and USFA closed down.

Battis, I typed a whole bunch there, and realized I don't know anything directly pertaining to cap and ball. My intuition makes me think they are in the same category as the early USPFA SAA's copies, imported machined parts finished and assembled in Hartford, but that's just my hypothesis. I'd take a close look at the guns, but I doubt they'd have any proof marks being assembled in Hartford. Make your decision based on the quality of the guns as you observe them. They aren't Colt's and will never be, but were probably well made. If you can get them right, they may be cool to have, but that's your call.

Jason

I believe that to be a very accurate history of the company. In 1994, I bought one of their U.S.Ptd.F.A. single actions that were made "under the Blue Dome". It is a very well finished and fitted revolver albeit from Italian parts. The bottom of the barrel is marked "Uberti Italy". The color case hardening is outstanding and I understand these were done by Doug Turnbull.

Shortly after I bought the handgun, I sent it back to the factory to have a 45 ACP cylinder fitted, which they did for $100.00 which included return shipping. I still have the handgun and shoot it almost exclusively with the 45 ACP cylinder. I use 45 Cowboy Special brass loaded with 246 grain #423424 over 4.5/Bulleye. It is an accurate load with plenty of thump and shoots to those itty bitty sights.

I did manage to break the hand/pawl due to soft Italian parts. But a new Uberti part from Brownells was a drop in fit.

[pietro]

.

The founder (ca.1994) of USPFA was Doug Donnelly.

Colt Firearms Co, the former Colt's Patent Firearms Co, sued USPFA to remove their "Patent" trademark, after which USPFA became USFA.


Further, from someone who was there (Capt. John Fitzgerald):

One look at an early USFA catalog would indicate that there were, at the time, plans to produce a full line of percussion, Colt style revolvers.

I believe that several prototypes of various models were made.

At the time this was being done, USFA was still importing a number of their parts from Uberti.

I believe that the percussion revolvers were made up primarily, if not entirely, of Uberti parts that were fit and finished by USFA. The only evidence I have seen of any of these prototypes being put into actual production is the 1851 Navy model.

In addition to the percussion revolvers, USFA also produced an 1851 Navy with the .38 caliber Richards Mason conversion, which I have in my posession.





From the Replica Percussion Revolver Collector's Association ( http://rprca.tripod.com/ ) :

RPRCA owns a 1851 Navy in the original box with papers and a 1860 Army with stag grips from the custom shop, also with original papers and invoice.

The Dragoons do not have any markings except the Uberti logo and the USFA boxes.

SN Hawk mentioned two 1861 Navy revolvers in the white in USFA boxes, also without any markings except Uberti.

We also have specimens of the following revolvers.

1). 1860 Army with stag grips – Serial Number 5197, fitted with two piece stag grips. NIB with original papers. Originally sold to Harry DeGeorge. Marked -ADDRESS U.S. PATENT HARTFORD CT. U.S. AMERICA - (Barrel top) U.S. Patent (LH side of Frame)

2.) 1851 Navy – Serial Number 130988. NIB with Sleeve and original papers. Instruction booklet bears copyright date of 1994. Marked -ADDRESS U.S. PATENT HARTFORD CT. U.S. AMERICA - ( Barrel top)

3.) 1851 3rd Model Dragoon in the white– Serial Numbers 1960 & 1961. NIB with original wrappings. Marked Under loading lever: (Italian Proof Marks in front of) CAL 44 BLACK POWDER ONLY - A. UBERTIITALY. Very small lettering and very faint.




Additional reports from Shootist John Taffin & others indicate that USFA made Colt-style 1851's, 1860's & Dragoon's, and 1858 Remington's.



.

[Battis]

I called the store when they opened and both guns were gone (yesterday). Someone knew what they were. Well, I learned a lot and saved some moola.
They might have been too pretty to shoot. I wonder what they're actually worth...

[square butte]

Just out of curiosity - What kind of a price did they have on them?

[JRD]

Battis,
We all know guns are "worth" what someone is willing to pay for them, so whatever price you saw on them, someone must have been willing to pay!
You're a shooter and those guns were NIB according to you, so probably not the right guns for you. Find more well used originals instead, give them some TLC and then take them to the range for an occasional gentle target session. I'll take a gun with some soul from being well used over a NIB gun any day.
Jason

[Battis]

They would have been a good investment. That's what I say about all the guns I buy. The problem is, I don't sell them.
I am kicking myself a little over those guns - they were asking $375 each.

[M-Tecs]

I have not checked in a while but the USFA 1873 had be selling for insane prices.