I was comparing a .50 caliber Traditions Kentucky flintlock pistol to the same model in caplock and noticed that the flinter has rifling all the way to the end of the bore. I checked the cap lock and was surprised that the rifling stopped about a 1/4 inch in from the muzzle. Any idea as to why they would be different or was it just something that happened for no real reason. The flinter was a kit while the cap lock was a factory build.
Thanks
My caplock kentucky goes all the way.
Rifling should go all the way. If it stopped short of the muzzle I'm guessing it got by QC and shouldn't have. If you are loading a patched ball, the patch takes up the space in the grooves of the rifling as well as compressing between the ball and the lands in order to form a tight seal as well as put spin on the ball as it exits the barrel. No rifling at the muzzle? I would think that might be a pretty difficult "load" even with a stout short starter.
On the flinters they cheap out on the locks and on the cap locks on the BARREL. You get what you pay for.
so far from the truth KCSO. They cheap out on the barrel on the caplock? That makes no sense whatsoever.
As for the flintlocks, I let my traditions locks to the talkin
My caplock barrel says,,, Whats wrong with this barrel and 100 yard patched round ball group?
Fit finish and rain or shine reliability. A GOOD lock will cost as much as a whole traditions gun. The difference isn't just a good group or one or two hot flashes in the pan but whole and long term reliability. Hunt three days in the rain and when the gun goes bang at the end then you have quality.
Everyone has to start somewhere and lord knows I started with the cheap stuff too, but I found that you pay now or pay later TANSTAAFL. I fix 100 cheap guns with problems for every quality gun that needs something. Barrels with bad rifling, locks that are not properly hardened and don't hold up are par for the course in the cheaper guns. I some times come off harsh on the stuuf because I see so many disappointed fellows struggling. I stand on the firing line at shoots and can hear the slow poor ignition and the hang fires and popped caps on some of these and I just cringe as it gives traditional muzzleloading a black eye.
BTW I won't even work on an inline or let one in the shop.
Now if I have offended everyone sufficiently...good bye.
No offense taken, I was just wondering about the difference in the barrels. Even as a relative newbe to front stuffers I still enjoy advice from some of the "Old Farts" who have forgotten more than I know. Gotta start somewhere and I would rather screw up a cheapo than a quality piece.
Getting back to my OP I was just wondering if anybody has seen something like this before. I'll get out to the range and see how it loads and shoots.
Eddie - I may have mis-undestood your OP. When you say it stops 1/4" from the muzzle - in what manner? Is the last 14" the same diameter as the lands or the grooves? If the lands - then it is not rifled all the way for whatever reason - poor quality control, etc. If it is the same diameter as the grooves - and is straight sided for that 1/4", then it is "counter bored" for some reason that only the factory knows. But, if the unrifled 1/4 inch is angled, as if "counter sunk" - then it has a rather deep "crown" to the end of the barrel - which is done to knock off the sharp edges of the rifling and also helps to introduce the patched ball into the bore.
"Crowns" can vary - I have seen original barrels over the years - I'm talking of original 1799 and 1800s barrels that were hand made that had literally no crown at all. Others had very little crown to them - just enough to knock the sharp edges off the lands/grooves off.
As I think of your original statement, I'm wondering ti the barrel just has a heavy "crown" to it? If it is angled, similar to what you would get if you "counter sunk" the bore - then it is probably just a heavy crown and a part of "mass production" practices. If that is what it is, it should not affect the accuracy and is there to help with the introduction of the patched ball in to the barrel. I have seen many mass produced production guns with heavy crowns over the years as opposed to say, barrels made by Green Mountain, etc. that were produced as barrel blanks to be used on custom made rifles, pistols, etc.
Just an addition note - as someone who has been shooting BP for over 50 years, I have owned and shot "production guns" and I have also built a number of custom built muzzleloaders - both in flintlock and percussion. Don't fall into the mind set that production guns are "cheap" or "junk". Yep, some are and fit and finish may not be the best - but I have also seen custom built guns with parts costing many times what a "production gun" costs that were very poorly put together or mayby not "historical correct" or correctly proportioned according to somebody else's opinion.
A person can have just as much fun with a production muzzleloader - whether it be rifle, shotgun or pistol as they can with a "custom built" front stuffer. In the end, it's all about the hobby and the enjoyment of shooting black powder. Everyone has different reasons for shooting BP and everyone has different budgets that they have to work with - in the end - it's about enjoying the hobby and to heck with what anyone else thinks about your gun.
I used to shoot with a very informal round ball club years ago - we met once a month - everyone thew a trinket worth a couple of bucks on a blanket and first pick was the guy with the highest score, etc. - everyone had fun, everyone had different muzzleloaders, everyone went home with a prize. We had a well known and respected custom gun builder who was in the club - he did it full time and was well respected for his high quality long rifles and trade guns. Every month he usually broth a new custom rifle or smoothbore that everyone rolled over. There was a young fellow - very nice - who always showed up with his Hopkins and Allen under hammer that had a .32 caliber short octagon barrel on it that had been scavaged from an old gun and put on it. He carried a small pocket horn with power and everything else was in a musket cap tin - caps, balls, patches, etc. He didn't have a whole lot but really enjoyed shooting BP. We all good teased him about his "little gun" and his "possibles tin" that he carried everything in and he loved being chided about it. It was rare that he didn't win first place with that gun of his - outshooting many of us who had custom built our guns. As they say . . . "beware of the man who shoots just one gun".
As you begin your journey into BP and muzzleloading, just remember . . . it's not "what" you shoot that's important . . what is important is that you "shoot". Do what your budget allows and remember that everyone has their own thoughts and opinions on guns, etc. - but if your front stuffer is safe and shoots and goes bang . . . then that is what is important. Have fun and enjoy it.
the missing rifling could be muzzle coning. some of the original rifles had coning that went 2", so a 1/4" or so on a pistol is no big deal. coning makes for easier and faster loading, very similar to the reason for the belled muzzle of a blunderbuss - fast coach gun loading.
The best way I could describe it is that the bore is counter bored about a 1/4 of an inch in. It looks like the rifling has been carefully ground off. It's not an extended crown, the rifling has been removed. It's no big deal, just something different which I've never seen or heard about before. I think rfd hit it with the muzzle coning, it looks factory. Could be they stopped doing it to save a step in machining the barrel and saved a little money during manufacturing. Thanks BedBug for the input, informal is the way I go.
They are made that way to ease loading. I've never had one so I don't know how well they work or if they are better or not but I never have a problem loading the traditional styles.
Aim small, miss small!
Frontier, that is some fine shooting, open sights, you should be participating in the NMLRA nationals with groups like that from factory front stuffer, rifle! I have seen Matches won with worse groups than that, from custom rifles and seasoned world class shooters!
As far as the barrel quality of a Traditions muzzleloader goes, from someone who has owned more than a few muzzle loading rifles, these are some of the smoothest barrels ever. Reminds me of a Green Mountain barrel I put on a T.C. Hawken to replace the less than smooth barrel it came with. Very smooth & easy to push the ball down.
Thanks for posting these comments. I am in the mist of trying to figure out how to get back into ML shooting for fun and hunting after many, many years without one. Your comments encourage me because I've been looking at the Traditions kits mostly for budget reasons. I almost convinced myself their Kentucky rifle kit was what I wanted but I've since pulled back from that and am now thinking of saving up for a quality kit from TOT, TVM or Chambers. However, you reminded me that the important thing, for me anyway, is to enjoy myself and work within my means. THANK YOU!Originally Posted by bedbugbilly
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