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Thread: First Test Patches

  1. #41
    The finish was smooth.
    It takes a good minute of sitting wet after a full dip before it gets sticky, as to hold onto the bullet at all and to give sufficient drag on the patch board.
    I'm thinking of trying this against that grain to see if it has more stretch but maybe a little more repeatable unlike the tracing paper.
    If I wipe the water on and try to wrap right away it doesn't wrap tight and doesn't stick to the bullet at all. Weird

    I think I'm going to order some 9# onion skin to try. I want something I can have a good source of and a known content to work with. I don't like the idea of not being able to get more of something once I run out.

    When I wipe the tracing paper or soak the vellum and wait it gets to the point where it really sticks to the board and the drag while rolling does kind of what you're saying with the textures soft surface.

    I'm going to show a picture of the different wraps after they have dried and let me know what you think about sufficient shrinking. I guess the 25% vellum doesn't shrink as much but it did handle the sizing without coming off. It's on there tight.

    There was a lot of 100% rag vellum at the store but I figured it would be too thick, I guess I need to bring my mic with me next time.
    The paper was very shiny after sizing. I'll try to show a pic of them all as wrapped and then sized to see what you think.
    I guess the proof is in the pudding.

  2. #42
    Ok here is the promised pic. I didn't have any of the cross grain tracing paper wrapped in the dry state. The middle bullet is a GC postell that I figured I would try. I hear that the GC base makes it's easy to twist or in the case fold under for easy seating. We shall see.
    from top to bottom

    Tracing paper cut against the grain. Little bit of bore butter and sized to .460

    Tracing paper cut with the grain dry
    Same as above but with bore butter and .460 sizing

    25% rag vellum cut with the grain dry
    same as above but with bore butter and .460 sizing.

    The tracing paper cross grain does shrink nicely but for the life of me I can't get the patch the same each time.
    The tracing paper with the grain I can get just about spot on each time and if I'm a little short I unroll it half way and roll it back with a little more tension and it fixes the problem.

    The 25% rag doesn't shrink much but holds on tight. I can't spin the bullet but the patch did look a little loose on the end. It was only one of the bullets so I'm guessing its the last one I wrapped where I didn't allow the paper to soak long enough to get tacky.
    Is the sizing down too extreme? I guess being a stronger paper it might hold up better but it has fully compressed which gets rid of the cushion effect which I believe I read about in Matthew's book.



  3. #43
    I'm driving myself crazy. I'm spending too much time wrapping with different papers and not ANY time shooting. I had the past 2 weeks off from the range due to rain and then my wife's birthday. I need to load some test bullets and get out there this week.
    I did play with seating depth and chambering rounds. Seems what is a little on the tight side in the Sharps chamber (just kissing the rifling) Chamber pretty freely in the Marlin surprisingly. The dummy rounds also cycle fine through the Marlin and don't seem to be damaged at all.

    When I was playing with the sharps I realized the lever was floppy and not staying closed. Well low and behold the lever action spring screw snapped off in the barrel block. I have a new one on order. Guess I have to hold the lever closed when I'm at the range this week.
    While I was at it I ordered some 9# onion skin from BACO. I'm hoping this thickness along with the 25% cotton and hopefully good wet working properties will be the magic paper that everyone says it is.
    If not I think I'm going to try my Bienfang 100% vellum and the Staedlater 25% vellum wrapped over a .451" bullet vs the Office depot tracing paper wrapped over the .453"
    Am I just being a snob looking to have cotton content in the paper? Seems to me more cotton content means less fillers which is better for the bore right?

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Have you tried green bar printer paper yet?
    USMC 6638

  5. #45
    I have not.
    Seems all I can find is the big boxes of it for sale. I can't find smaller amounts.

    Is the 2 part receipt paper and similar 2 part car onleas duplicate pads for various forms that you can find at staples the same type of paper?

  6. #46
    Boolit Buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J. Spangler View Post
    I have not.
    Seems all I can find is the big boxes of it for sale. I can't find smaller amounts.
    PM me your mailing address, and I'll send you a couple of sheets.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    I have the whole box. I'll be happy to send you few sheets also. Once you try it, you will quit all those other papers.
    Last edited by oldblinddog; 07-14-2017 at 01:16 AM.
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  8. #48
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    The boolits in the photo look good. Cushioning effect? I don't recall reading about that. What does he say?

    If your Marlin has micro-groove rifling, the bore diameter will be greater than conventional rifling, which would be part of why those tight in the Sharps would be easy in the Marlin. With 12-16 lands (they varied over the years), it's only .0015-.002 or so deep with normal groove diameter which means bore diameter will be large. That being said, I'd expect seating details will be different for the Marlin. In a conventional .30 cal, the bore is normally .300, but in a micro-groove, it's .303-.304, hence, a Marlin micro-groove .45-70 should allow more flexibility on nose patching some of those bore-ride designs, eh? Not to mention differences in breech-face-to-rifling-origin length. No doubt, it'll be different in several details.

    I need to load some test bullets and get out there this week.
    I second that motion! I loooove those one-hole groups! . . . . But, then. . . . . I have to fire the second shot. . . . .

    I don't think there's any magic one way or another about whether there's cotton content in the paper. It's wood pulp and/or cotton, generally. (There are some papers using other long-fiber source material, like hemp or flax which would make for tough papers that would work well, but their availability is another question.) Cotton papers are more durable and offer more advantages than wood pulp that way, but I've gotten very good results with wood pulp papers too. They're more delicate when wet and sometimes in general, but once wrapped, they serve well. Two I've found very useful are 8.5x11 quadrille tracing paper (no cotton) and plain butcher paper (no plastic coating). They don't have much wet strength, so I just spritz them on one side with a spray bottle and wrap the way they are. I've never used the green bar paper some favor, partly because the green bar I'm familiar with had a texture like newsprint and was poor when wet, but I wasn't patching boolits back then either. Maybe they use a better grade of it. No reason not to try it.
    Last edited by yeahbub; 07-14-2017 at 03:51 PM.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Green Bar is not like newsprint. Was the paper you are talking about the tractor feed?
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  10. #50
    So I got some 9 pound onions skin from BACO today. It's not as sticky as the tracing paper and wraps a little thinner than the tracing paper for sure.
    Seems it will be about .4585 or so when dried. Tomorrow morning will tell.
    It wrapped pretty well and was pretty consistent though.
    If you buy through their eBay store it's a little cheaper than their website by the way

  11. #51
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    I have had some good results using plain 'ol printer paper. It's thick and soft and that is the appeal. It compresses down well and holds the boolit very well in the neck without compressing the core or expanding the neck. It forms a tight fit in the throat too and again, compresses into the bore. Very forgiving paper and dry wraps very well. Not so much for wet wrapping but can be done with care.

    But - it is a soft paper .... It seems to like worn bores with well rounded rifling. Not so much rough bores. I dare say it's not the best for higher velocities. It does have its place for some applications. I have a lightweight boolit that shoots very accurately out my very worn and rusted out 303 Brit at subsonic speeds, wrapped with printer paper.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  12. #52
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    It was the tractor-edged paper with the holes down the sides, OBD. I used pounds of it when I was in college debugging that affliction known as FORTRAN. Then the Apple IIe's came out in Basic and I never looked back. It seems I saw some at another job that was finer in texture, not quite as smooth as notebook filler, but not cheap looking like at college. I haven't seen the stuff in some years, but if you have a source and it works, full speed ahead.

    303guy, how do you keep dry-wrapped patches tight? I always relied on the shrinkage at drying to keep them tight, whether glued or with a twisted tail. I've used copier paper, but it doesn't have the same feel as quadrille or vellum, and I wondered about what chemical additions I was sending down the bore. I'm not concerned about the titanium oxide whitener - its too fine to be a problem, but I wondered what was being left behind which would affect accuracy. Most wood pulp papers I've used keep some degree of strength when dampened with a spray bottle containing water. You're right, when wetted, they're very difficult to work with.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I do a twisting between forefinger and thumb of both hands to pull the patch up tight then glue the trailing edge then roll it over the base leaving an 'eye'. I also use a tailless patch. Not sure which is better but printer paper rolls over the best. Printer paper also dry wraps easiest. One can tighten the patch to close the gap.



    With the rolled over tail I glue between the inner and outer wrap below the base. It looks very pretty but with softer alloy the ring gets impressed into the base which may or may not be an issue.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 07-22-2017 at 02:17 AM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  14. #54
    Finally some load testing this week.
    I really don't know what to make of it all. I guess they're all shooting ok. I'm not the best shot and I can come up with a dozen other excuses. This was the 485 grain lyman and the lee 405 with various powder charges that I need to write on the targets. I was sighted a bit high so bare with me,.
    The conclusion was that the office depot tracing paper worked flawlessly, plenty of confetti with each shot and they all seemed to shoot well enough.
    The groups were at 50 yards shot off front and rear bags with a Pedersoli Soule sight and Lyman globe front.


  15. #55
    I did some more shooting a couple weeks back to test out my papers.
    I shot some Lyman 535 postell and a Hoch 550 Nose pour wrapped in various papers all with the same charge weight of H4198.
    For papers I ran
    BACO 25% rag
    Staedtler 25% rag vellum
    Bienfeng 100% rag vellum
    Even though the latter 2 wrap to about .463 or so and looked very thin when sized down to .460 they all shot well and there was plenty of confetti with each shot. No large chunks of wrap were left.
    I'll have to dig up my pictures of the groups. They were all 3 shot groups with less than ideal light conditions. 50 yards. If you removed the worst shot they were all under 1" IIRC. Next time I'm going to hit the range with better lighting conditions and try a couple front sight inserts to see which gives me the best sight picture. Then I can shoot a 5 shot group round robin style to see what works best.
    All of those bullet and patch combos shot very similar to the point where I can't say any one was better than the other. So next time I'll be testing for an optimal charge weight.
    I did play with some more patching to see which paper I liked best.
    I have settled on the BACO paper. Its a little tackier when wet and that lends to the starting tail holding on to the bullet while wrapping and also it sticks to the patch board a bit more which causes some nice drag for s tighter finished patch.

    I'm going to settle on this .453 patched to .460 with BACO paper combination for the time being. If I can't get that to shoot then I'll be back here to ask the CB brain trust which variable I should be playing with next.
    Pics to come on the next post

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check