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Thread: First Test Patches

  1. #1

    First Test Patches

    Hello all,

    So after some suggestions on paper and a little jump back into "The Paper Jacket" I was able to find some Office Depot brand tracing paper and some 100% Rag Vellum

    I picked up small paper cutter at Wal Mart last night and started to cut some patches.

    The paper cutter has a built in ruler.
    For the Lee 457-405 I figure that about a 1" patch would would well.



    I dropped the see through cutter guard and it had just enough tension for me to alight the paper properly with the 1" mark.


    The I trimmed the end to 30 degrees. I know some people are big on a specific patch angle but the more I read the more it seems it's less important.


    After lots of playing around and trimming and re cutting new patches (I should have used some template material, started long and trimmed a tiny bit each time but I didn't have any suitable template material around)

    I noticed that the 60 degree line and the vertical line just to the left of it were the perfect length to cut the patch I needed


    So I lined it up and cut


    I made a patching board from some PVC trim scraps I had in the cellar. 6"X9.5" with about a 3/16" Slot 1/8" deep. I chamfered the sharp inside edge just a touch with my pocket knife. Prior to that I got a couple of tears in the wet paper due to the sharp edge.

    Here is the patch laid out and the bullet plopped on top


    A quick roll and it was wrapped on beautifully.


    I opted to fold the paper on bottom. Again one of those things that everyone has a say on, I'm going to try it this way first and move on from there. I know some suggest to use hollow base bullets to tuck the patch into, or to leave the paper one and twist a tail to be trimmed off once dry. I might mess with the heavy lee hollow base mould at some point to try tucking the patch in.

    I did notice that depending on weather I was using the Vellum or the tracing paper and wether I cut the paper the short or the long way the patch would be a tiny bit longer or shorter. That would be easy enough to adjust for depending on the paper I was using. With that guide line on the cutter I can easily adjust a tiny bit in either direction.

    I plan on making a nice brass template once I settle on a material. I think the cutter is nice to make strips but I think I could get more consistency from batch to batch using a template to cut them to length.

    I sized these bullets down to .453 (The sizer I had on hand)
    The vellum was measuring a little over .0027"
    The tracing paper was about .002" spot on
    #1 wrapped in tracing paper is about .460" / .461"
    #2 wrapped in vellum is about .465"

    I'm going to continue with the tracing paper right now due to the fact that I have a proper sizer to work with that. I'm planning on grabbing a .451 sizer that should work decent with the vellum.
    I have a .457" lee sizer that I've been meaning to ream out a bit to .460" which I'll try to get done this weekend. Next step is to roll up some bullets.

    Should I pass these guys through the push through just to uniform them? Also I hear about some guys shooting them dry and some guys using a tough of lube on the patch. Thoughts?
    I imagine the lube will help during the sizing process. I tried to push a couple through yesterday but they were dry patched and didn't want to stay on. I think the fat nose of the lee bullet was giving me fits and if I had patched them a little higher and got onto the ogive better it would have eased the transition into the die.
    I should be able to borrow some heavier bullet moulds off of a buddy (he might even have a PP mould too!) So I can play with some bigger bullets better suited to my Sharps (45-70)


    Thanks for all the advice guys! I can't wait to load some cartridges for my sharps! I just hope I don't get silly and ream the chamber to 45-120 so I can feel like Matthew Quigley

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Michael, that's a very nice example. Well done. Good photos, too. Sizing them after patching isn't a bad idea, but you may want to see how they chamber and shoot first. It could well be a step you can skip, if they shoot satisfactorily as-is. There's no downside to sizing a patched boolit in my experience. I've heard some comments that it loosens the patch, but when I do it, the paper is a shiny white, hard coating tightly gripping the casting. I haven't noticed much difference between sizing the boolit to bore+ and patching to finished diameter, and sizing one already patched to final diameter. The patch didn't want to stay on? Are you rolling the wet patched boolit hard, with the edge of your hand on a soft surface, like a rubber place mat or some "drawer liner" when you apply the wet patch to tighten it onto the boolit? A textured surface is better than smooth, I've found. You'll know you're getting stretch when the paper starts sucking in at the lube grooves. Tighter is better. I commented about these things on your "paper question" thread so I won't waste space here. YMMV. It all depends on what it takes to get the results you're after.

    Accuracy improves with a lubed patch and, yes, they ease the sizing chore. Dry patches are useful for polishing a barrel, but the friction will heat a barrel quickly, though some folks use them and like them.

    Two questions:
    1. How are you keeping the patches on? I glue the end of the patch down and fold the rest over the heel, which looks like what you're doing. That works, and saves paper over the twisted tail bit. BTW, you mention wanting a bit more on the ogive. Your patch width is good, you can just start the paper about .050 farther up the nose. You'll still have plenty to fold over the heel.

    2. I notice the very neat seam you have has a right-hand twist. The Sharps rifles I'm familiar with have a right-hand twist. I mention this because of the possibility of a gas leak burning the patch on the trip down the bore if the seam and rifling align. Not very likely, but possible. It looks like you have a good bit of helix there which will probably be crossed by a land and seal it for sure, but most folks patch with the seam slanted opposite the rifling for insurance. Just a thought.

    As for a better way to cut patches, I hope to borrow a camera and lay out the cardboard patch cutting fixture I came up with. No template, just strips of paper and a disposable razor knife. . . . Gotta get a camera.
    Last edited by yeahbub; 06-24-2017 at 01:17 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I found it easier to use a millimeter ruler. (more exact and easier to read.)

    I see the pix above _your on the right track but. It appears your second wrap wasn't laid exactly on the seam or just short of the seam. By seam I mean: the first wraps start point.
    (might be my eyesight is deceiving? But that's what I believe to be)

    i.e. Exactly two wraps ending on the first wraps start point _ or as close as humanly possible without overlapping the papered Start point what-so-ever.

    Tip: when I started to wrap a fresh new bullet and didn't know the exact length of patch needed. I inked the starting edge of the paper patch with a red or black indelible ink. Easier to see your Start point under a wrap of paper. Diagonal cut ends can be what ever desired or not at all. I make my (diagonal cuts having a slight 5-mm drop.
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by yeahbub View Post
    Michael, that's a very nice example. Well done. Good photos, too. Sizing them after patching isn't a bad idea, but you may want to see how they chamber and shoot first. It could well be a step you can skip, if they shoot satisfactorily as-is. There's no downside to sizing a patched boolit in my experience. I've heard some comments that it loosens the patch, but when I do it, the paper is a shiny white, hard coating tightly gripping the casting. I haven't noticed much difference between sizing the boolit to bore+ and patching to finished diameter, and sizing one already patched to final diameter. The patch didn't want to stay on? Are you rolling the wet patched boolit hard, with the edge of your hand on a soft surface, like a rubber place mat or some "drawer liner" when you apply the wet patch to tighten it onto the boolit? A textured surface is better than smooth, I've found. You'll know you're getting stretch when the paper starts sucking in at the lube grooves. Tighter is better. I commented about these things on your "paper question" thread so I won't waste space here. YMMV. It all depends on what it takes to get the results you're after.

    Accuracy improves with a lubed patch and, yes, they ease the sizing chore. Dry patches are useful for polishing a barrel, but the friction will heat a barrel quickly, though some folks use them and like them.

    Two questions:
    1. How are you keeping the patches on? I glue the end of the patch down and fold the rest over the heel, which looks like what you're doing. That works, and saves paper over the twisted tail bit. BTW, you mention wanting a bit more on the ogive. Your patch width is good, you can just start the paper about .050 farther up the nose. You'll still have plenty to fold over the heel.

    2. I notice the very neat seam you have has a right-hand twist. The Sharps rifles I'm familiar with have a right-hand twist. I mention this because of the possibility of a gas leak burning the patch on the trip down the bore if the seam and rifling align. Not very likely, but possible. It looks like you have a good bit of helix there which will probably be crossed by a land and seal it for sure, but most folks patch with the seam slanted opposite the rifling for insurance. Just a thought.

    As for a better way to cut patches, I hope to borrow a camera and lay out the cardboard patch cutting fixture I came up with. No template, just strips of paper and a disposable razor knife. . . . Gotta get a camera.
    I think my issues with the patch not holding up was due to trying to size down too far, not being far enough up the ogive or the fact that the paper was still damp.
    When I wrapped I was applying a little pressure and once dried the patch does conform to the ogive and seems to have sunk into the lube grooves a bit.
    Do you suggest rolling it on nice and even and then going back and applying the rolling pressure again on a soft surface just as a separate tightening step?
    I'm not adding any type of glue to hold the patch on, I thought that wet patching didn't need any type of glue?
    If i move my patch up a little higher and the folded over bottom still leaves the center of the bullet base exposed is that ok? I'm guessing that won't cause any real issues in lower pressure loads right?
    I'll have to adjust my patch to make it left handed. I was going by the diagram in The Paper Jacket and was going for the twist the patch tighter with the rifling approach. It's easier to start to roll the patch the way I have the bottom tail facing in the pics, but I get your point about the gas cutting and with a patch that doesn't have a perfect start and finish wrap could have an issue. I guess I should look at the twist in the barrel and see if the patch angle is close to it to determine if there will be an issue. I guess firing a few shots could tell me the answer too.

    Thanks again man!

    Quote Originally Posted by OverMax View Post
    I found it easier to use a millimeter ruler. (more exact and easier to read.)

    I see the pix above _your on the right track but. It appears your second wrap wasn't laid exactly on the seam or just short of the seam. By seam I mean: the first wraps start point.
    (might be my eyesight is deceiving? But that's what I believe to be)

    i.e. Exactly two wraps ending on the first wraps start point _ or as close as humanly possible without overlapping the papered Start point what-so-ever.

    Tip: when I started to wrap a fresh new bullet and didn't know the exact length of patch needed. I inked the starting edge of the paper patch with a red or black indelible ink. Easier to see your Start point under a wrap of paper. Diagonal cut ends can be what ever desired or not at all. I make my (diagonal cuts having a slight 5-mm drop.
    That patch was just a touch short of the perfect wrap. Most of the test ones I made up (once i got the patch size right) were only .005" or a little more shy of being a perfect wrap. I figure the perfect wrap will come with experience and consistency in my operation.
    I was reading that a wrap with a little gap is better than an overlap and shouldn't cause issues with accuracy as long ad the gap in minimal right?
    Thanks!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    It won't hurt a thing to leave the center of the heel exposed. The fire is only there for a millisecond or two and not nearly enough heat is absorbed to do any damage. A leak past the boolit, however, jets a lot of hot gas past a small area like a torch and causes much erosion.

    No glue? That'll be why the patch is coming loose on sizing. I patch holding the boolit in my fingers, stretching as I wrap. The last .25" or so of the patch gets a dab of white glue and is smoothed down, the wet patched boolit is then rolled with force on drawer liner once or twice to tighten it. Additional tightening will occur on drying as it shrinks, tightening it further. Just make sure to glue paper to paper, not paper to lead.

    To get a left-hand helix on the wrap, flip the patch top to bottom and wrap from the other end of your board. With the wrap you have, right-hand rifling will push the patch end to the right which is to unwrap it. No matter. On firing, the boolit will obturate against the patch and barrel wall. On exit, the gasses will blast past the boolit, shredding the patch, leaving the boolit free to fly. The patch's mission is accomplished.
    Last edited by yeahbub; 06-24-2017 at 03:09 PM.

  6. #6
    I'll try the glue next time.
    I was going to pick up a cigarette roller to try that too.

    So in that pic of the wrapped bullet the bottom side of the patch is the end of the patch... wouldn't that be wrapped in the direction to tighten when going down a right hand twist?

    The again I hear that either way can be made to work right?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    {005 thousands short of seam is very near a perfect wrap.}
    I don't think it makes a different in a papers shredding at muzzle which way the paper is applied clockwise or counterclockwise. Which ever direction is the easiest for you to roll tight ~is OK. Just so you know I apply my patches dampened wet with saliva. And they do have a twisted tail which is clipped after the patches overnight drying or just before their resizing (if resizing is needed?)_It appears upon twisting a spit-wet-tail-in the same direction of the patch's laying. Such technique seem to tighten the entire patch to its lead surface and too most Resizer Push Rods will flatten its patches remaining (thoroughly dried) clipped tail to the base. No harm to a bullets accuracy does a twisted flattened tail create or non-flattened tail stub create.

    Tip: When I apply my dampened patches and roll them on with my fingers. I kind'a roll the up edge facing the bullets tip ever so slightly off center downward from its prior wraps edge. So to speak creating a tapered ever so slightly downward appearance. Doing so I think creates a wedging effect of my patchs meeting its rifling.

    Not a typical 2-wrapped blunt edge of paper that abruptly meets its rifling. (Although the latter way is the customary way most Patch'er gents do follow.)
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  8. #8
    So I was reading over some notes I had from last summer when I was reading "The Paper Jacket" for the first time and reading as much as I could fine online.
    I had a note about guns that have no throat like a Marlin being able to be patched so the front of patch is sitting in the crimp groove, that way when it dries the front of the patch is almost "crimped" into the groove when it shrinks. I guess this would allow for the use of a patch in a rifle with no throat. What do you guys think?

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    May I respectfully suggest that you might do a better job of fluxing and skimming your lead pot when casting.
    Perhaps a slightly higher casting temp and maybe another 1/2 percent of tin , too
    beltfed/arnie

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by beltfed View Post
    May I respectfully suggest that you might do a better job of fluxing and skimming your lead pot when casting.
    Perhaps a slightly higher casting temp and maybe another 1/2 percent of tin , too
    beltfed/arnie
    Thank you for noticing, I am always up for respectful constructive criticism. Some of them were not the best. I was casting with a lee bottom pour at first then switched over to a ladle and results were very very good.
    Also these were tumbled for the hi-tek coating which tends to soften the sharp lines and make them look like they had less than respectable fill out.

    If all goes well I won't be using hi-tek on my 45/70 loads once this paper thing is all sorted out.

    What do you guys like for lube? I had a tube of TC Bore Butter close by when messing with sizing and it seemed to do the job well. I don't know if there are any rules of what to look for or stay away from, or whatever you have on hand is good enough?

  11. #11
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    For what it is worth, I now patch without a tail. Or I did when I last patched and will do so again soon. For me the only thing was to protect the boolit base from powder kernel peening. Harder allow and/or lower pressure solved that problem.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I wouldn't worry about the direction of he wrap. The object is to wrap so the seam is crossed by a land to prevent the possibility of leakage scorching or burning the patch. From the look of that boolit in the photo, the seam covers about 120 degrees of the boolits circumference and six land rifling has only 60 degrees between lands, so the seam will be crossed by at least one land, if not two. Good enough. There's no magic in one way or the other. It's just easier to guarantee lands across the seam if the seam is opposite the rifling.

    You're correct that some rifles don't have much of a throat. For this condition, it's good to have the patch start high enough on the ogive to ensure there's no lead to steel contact. Since you're going with a groove+ diameter boolit, you'll have to experiment with OAL to find the maximum length which will reliably chamber.

    What lube is good? Are you using black or smokeless? There are lubes that work with either, but most lubes intended for smokeless are problematic when used with black. I've used Bore Butter with PP boolits in a muzzleloader and it served well, but for ammo that must endure handling, something more durable would stay put longer. One of my go-to lubes for several chores is Emmert's (on the boolit lube forum where cubic tons of info on the subject can be found), also known as 541, 5 parts bees wax, 4 parts vegetable shortening, 1 part canola oil, melted together in a double boiler to keep it from getting unnecessarily hot. Crayon some of that on the patch and you'll be well served at Sharps velocities using black or smokeless. Black may well need a card wad and lube cookie under the boolit so you'll have plenty for the added fouling with black. The BPCR folks can fill you in very knowledgeably about what success requires with black. With smokeless, just what the patch will hold in the paper's texture should be enough. If you're going smokeless, another option is tumble-lubing them in 4 parts Lee Liquid Alox and 1 part Meguiar's liquid carnauba wax (no cleaners, abrasives or polymers, just carnauba) from your local Auto Zone or similar. The carnauba will keep the LLA from being so objectionably tacky. It'll smell better too. Once dry, it's pretty tenacious and will endure handling as well as water-proofing the patches. Don't use LLA with BP. The tar-like deposits are a chore to remove.
    Last edited by yeahbub; 06-26-2017 at 12:22 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by yeahbub View Post
    I wouldn't worry about the direction of he wrap. The object is to wrap so the seam is crossed by a land to prevent the possibility of leakage scorching or burning the patch. From the look of that boolit in the photo, the seam covers about 120 degrees of the boolits circumference and six land rifling has only 60 degrees between lands, so the seam will be crossed by at least one land, if not two. Good enough. There's no magic in one way or the other. It's just easier to guarantee lands across the seam if the seam is opposite the rifling.

    You're correct that some rifles don't have much of a throat. For this condition, it's good to have the patch start high enough on the ogive to ensure there's no lead to steel contact. Since you're going with a groove+ diameter boolit, you'll have to experiment with OAL to find the maximum length which will reliably chamber.

    What lube is good? Are you using black or smokeless? There are lubes that work with either, but most lubes intended for smokeless are problematic when used with black. I've used Bore Butter with PP boolits in a muzzleloader and it served well, but for ammo that must endure handling, something more durable would stay put longer. One of my go-to lubes for several chores is Emmert's (on the boolit lube forum where cubic tons of info on the subject can be found), also known as 541, 5 parts bees wax, 4 parts vegetable shortening, 1 part canola oil, melted together in a double boiler to keep it from getting unnecessarily hot. Crayon some of that on the patch and you'll be well served at Sharps velocities using black or smokeless. Black may well need a card wad and lube cookie under the boolit so you'll have plenty for the added fouling with black. The BPCR folks can fill you in very knowledegably about what success equires with black. With smokeless, just what the patch will hold in the paper's texture should be enough. If your going smokeless, another option is tumble-lubing them in 4 parts Lee Liquid Alox and 1 part Meguiar's liquid carnauba wax (no cleaners, abrasives or polymers, just carnauba) from your local Auto Zone or similar. The carnauba will keep the LLA from being so objectionably tacky. It'll smell better too. Once dry, it's pretty tenacious and will endure handling as well as water-proofing the patches. Don't use LLA with BP. The tar-like deposits are a chore to remove.

    Thank you!

    I'm messing around with patching some Lyman 457132 bullets that a buddy gave me. Wrapped up tot he ogive they are a little tight in my sharps. Am I right to think that this style bullet with a step down for a bore ride section could be patched shorter and still do the job? The undersized bore ride section should allow room for the patch to shrink on just as if it were wrapped up to the ogive right? The smaller diameter nose acting just like the taper of the ogive?

    Thanks again!

  14. #14
    Alright so once dried the bullets patched with the tracing paper are perfect size. Barely any resistance going through the .460" lee sizer.

    I am having a little issue seating them though. I have had the paper tear and the patch bunch up while seating. I figure that this is due to a couple things.
    Maybe I need a little more lube on the patch?
    Maybe I'm not wrapping the patches tight enough to give them a decent hold?
    Maybe because I'm test wrapping these with bullets that are already lubed that they're not gripping the bullet well and are sliding right up, bunching and tearing?
    Maybe I need to have a slightly oversize neck expander?
    Maybe because i cut the patches with the grain running the long way that the grain is running perpendicular to the axis of the bullet so seating is putting stress in the weakest direction of the paper and tearing it?

    I'm guessing the pre lubed bullets being the biggest issue, and maybe too much neck tension on the brass.
    I'm going to try to seat some without sizing the cases and see how that works. They're all going through a sharps so it won't be too bad.

    The ones I added a little more lube to and took my time gently seating worked out fine it appears. I patched them shorter without getting onto the ogive. They both seem to chamber fine in the sharps now.



    How am I making out?

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Patching Boolits which have lube on them will keep the patch from gripping tightly which is against the effect you want, a dry grip on the boolit which includes the mechanical lock of intruding into the empty lube grooves. I soak the lubed boolits in mineral spirits or acetone to remove the lube before patching, but, hey, if you can get them seated, they might be worth a try. Surely people have done it before. When I prep cases for seating PPB, I make sure any wire edge on the inside lip of the case is removed with a chamfer tool and the edge of the brass is radiused by spinning them in a drill with some medium steel wool pressed against the case mouth. The cases are then belled enough to be able to get the PPB heel wedged into the case mouth finger tight and then seating in the press. I don't like to work my cases more than necessary, so I'm sparing with this, but it has to be enough to reliably get each one started without snagging the patch on the case mouth. Using unsized cases is certainly an option, but you'll be patching the boolits to fit the case rather than the throat. Your chamber may be such that a PPB fitted to the throat is also a friction fit in a fired case. Some chambers are large, and a throat-sized PPB will fall down in a fired case and be rattling loose. The difference in size may make the patched-to-fired-case diameter too big for the throat. Then your only option is to size the case enough to grip the throat-sized boolit snugly.

    The bore-ride nose is the correct diameter for a PP boolit on it's own, so yes, patching the nose means it's now groove diameter and the boolit will have to be seated deeper in the case for it to chamber. Leaving it unpatched is workable IF the alloy is stiff enough to maintain it's diameter and not obturate enough to lead the bore in front of the patch and tear it up. Some folks do this successfully, but its a matter of alloy hardness being matched to how hard they're pushing them. If you're tumble lubing, the bare noses will be coated with lube and that'll help, but only shooting will tell the tale.

    Spiffy! Those two look like they're ready to be tried.
    Last edited by yeahbub; 06-27-2017 at 12:31 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Looking good!

    I roll my patched boolits on my lube pad with STP smoke stopper on it and seat. The STP soaks away and leaves the paper gripping the neck pretty well. Makes for easy tight seating. It does work best with printer paper but that isn't always the best paper to use. It is compressible which makes for easy seating though.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Maybe because I'm test wrapping these with bullets that are already lubed that they're not gripping the bullet well and are sliding right up, bunching and tearing?
    Yup. Sounds about right to me.

    From my experience. All saturating bullet lubes I've tried inhibit a patches timely shredding. You should try both completely dry and lightly lubed patched bullets and see which of the two patching you prefer.

    I use to lube my patches. Until I realized there was little reason too. I only shoot two or three rounds at a time there after my barrel cools while I write & keep notes. {its a shooting procedure I've practiced for many years.} Those who enjoy shooting 7-9 consecutive rounds in a row as fast as they can center their rifles sights on bullseye. Such shooting requires a bullet lube sparing applied. Friction and smokeless power use undoubtedly have increased barrel temps substantially which promotes chamber erosion. Continuous use of alox bullet lubes help to reduce the chance of erosion.

    The paper patching technique when popular years ago. If given some thought.
    Lubbing wasn't done to enhance a bullets orbitration for better accuracy. It was likely done to keep Black Powder fouling soft.
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Looking good!

    I roll my patched boolits on my lube pad with STP smoke stopper on it and seat. The STP soaks away and leaves the paper gripping the neck pretty well. Makes for easy tight seating. It does work best with printer paper but that isn't always the best paper to use. It is compressible which makes for easy seating though.
    Cool idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by OverMax View Post
    Yup. Sounds about right to me.

    From my experience. All saturating bullet lubes I've tried inhibit a patches timely shredding. You should try both completely dry and lightly lubed patched bullets and see which of the two patching you prefer.

    I use to lube my patches. Until I realized there was little reason too. I only shoot two or three rounds at a time there after my barrel cools while I write & keep notes. {its a shooting procedure I've practiced for many years.} Those who enjoy shooting 7-9 consecutive rounds in a row as fast as they can center their rifles sights on bullseye. Such shooting requires a bullet lube sparing applied. Friction and smokeless power use undoubtedly have increased barrel temps substantially which promotes chamber erosion. Continuous use of alox bullet lubes help to reduce the chance of erosion.

    The paper patching technique when popular years ago. If given some thought.
    Lubbing wasn't done to enhance a bullets orbitration for better accuracy. It was likely done to keep Black Powder fouling soft.
    What types of lube are you using?
    Also what type of heat are we talking about compared to jacketed? I know black powder heats a barrel up super fast but where does the paper land? Somewhere in between cast and jacketed? Same as jacketed? More?

    I'm going to pick up a buddies bullet mould sometime this week so I can cast some new bullets and make some test loads.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by yeahbub View Post
    Patching Boolits which have lube on them will keep the patch from gripping tightly which is against the effect you want, a dry grip on the boolit which includes the mechanical lock of intruding into the empty lube grooves. I soak the lubed boolits in mineral spirits or acetone to remove the lube before patching, but, hey, if you can get them seated, they might be worth a try. Surely people have done it before. When I prep cases for seating PP, I make sure any wire edge on the inside lip of the case is removed with a chamfer tool and the edge of the brass is radiused by spinning them with some medium steel wool pressed against the case mouth. The cases are then belled enough to be able to get the PPB heel wedged into the case mouth finger tight and then seating in the press. I don't like to work my cases more than necessary, so I'm sparing with this, but it has to be enough to reliably get each one started without snagging the patch on the case mouth. Using unsized cases is certainly an option, but you'll be patching the boolits to fit the case rather than the throat. Your chamber may be such that a PPB fitted to the throat is also a friction fit in a fired case. Some chambers are large, and a throat-sized PPB will fall down in a fired case and be rattling loose. The difference in size may make the patched-to-fired-case diameter too big for the throat. Then your only option is to size the case enough to grip the throat-sized boolit snugly.

    The bore-ride nose is the correct diameter for a PP boolit on it's own, so yes, patching the nose means it's now groove diameter and the boolit will have to be seated deeper in the case for it to chamber. Leaving it unpatched is workable IF the alloy is stiff enough to maintain it's diameter and not obturate enough to lead the bore in front of the patch and tear it up. Some folks do this successfully, but its a matter of alloy hardness being matched to how hard they're pushing them. If you're tumble lubing, the bare noses will be coated with lube and that'll help, but only shooting will tell the tale.

    Spiffy! Those two look like they're ready to be tried.

    Ok some cool info here.
    With the bore ride nose being about .445" it's patched up to about .455" I did patch most of the way up that section but not as far as the ogive.
    So are you saying that if that the exposed bore ride nose is soft enough to bump up to groove that I might have an issues with leading proceeding the patch which can tear up the patch?

    I guess if I have leading with these relatively soft bullets and some nose unwrapped then I can cast some harder bullets to see if it gets rid of the issue. If the issue is gone at that point it's probably from he hard alloy not being able to obturate.

    I've seen some swaged bullets with almost a SWC type shoulder and a reduced diameter shorter nose. I'm guessing it's to solve the issue I'm running into now.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,397
    What types of lube are you using?
    I don't use a lube. My patched bullets are void of any lube. When I tried to use a lube it was RCBS hollow stick (rifle) cast bullet lube or White Label liquid X-lox 45-45-10.

    Also what type of heat are we talking about compared to jacketed?
    The copper plating on a jacketed bullet not only absorbed heat it also has lubricating quality's. Paper on a patched bullet simple creates friction and heat down the bore which is absorbed by the barrels metal. As to which barrel develops the higher temp. I'm pretty sure a Patch shooting barrel gets hotter--quicker than a barrel shooting the same amount of jacketed cartridges heats.
    where does the paper land?
    . The paper on a patch bullet shreds near muzzle end I'm supposing? Patch paper is simply turned into a confetti looking material. The longer a patch paper is adhered to its projectile beyond muzzle end the less accuracy its shooter will witness.
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check