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Thread: My Paper Patching Plan thus far

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    My Paper Patching Plan thus far

    I've read about paper patching for years (no small amount of it on this site). I finally decided to give it a whirl and just wanted to get any input that anyone wanted to chime in with.

    I have a later model production Ruger #1 .45-70. I do know that I'll need to get all of the lead/jacket fouling out before I start shooting my patched bullets. BTW, this rifle has little to no throat.

    My patches are regular printer paper (.003"), cut at 60deg. on both ends, and ran up to about 1/16" or bit more past the front driving band onto the ogive.

    My first batch will be some MiHec 270-SAA's (1/2 shot, 1/2 WW alloy, aircooled) that I've sized to .452, patched up to .464, coated with LLA, then sized back down to .459. I've finished a few of these. It's a challenge, but my technique is improving.
    My plan is to load these on a case full of Trail Boss (guessing around 16.5-17grains), Starline Brass, Fed. 210. I'll give the case mouth a generous bell and crimp juuuuust enough to bump the bell back in. Eventually, I'd like to have a bit more speed (think 2400) with this load, but for starts, I just want a case FULL of powder.

    My next plant is to do the same thing with some Lee 405HB's. These are straight aircooled WW. Sized down to .452, patched up, then back down to .459. I have a 355 Ranch Dog mold I could do the same with. Trail Boss or a case full of 3031 is the plan here.

    If this works, I've got a '98 Krag with a rough bore. It'll shoot jacketed bullets well enough, but I've not tried cast. Thinking paper patch will be the way to go.

    Eventually, I'd like to make a paper patch mold (one piece) on my lathe (if I ever get it moved into my shop). I've looked for threads here on mold making (one piece paper patch in particular) but can't find anything (may be looking wrong), any input there?

    Thanks!!!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


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    I'm just starting out myself but I would suggest not sizing down that far after patching. If you can get a thinner paper like a tracing paper it will help out.
    I size to .453 (its the die I have on hand) and Office Depot tracing paper brings me about .460 Passing through the die just barely kisses the paper and irons it all out.
    I noticed that the thicker paper that patches up to about .463 or so was a little harder to size but was doable with a little lube (bore butter because it's what I have on hand) Though the patch was nearly translucent when I was done sizing. Some say that this is a bad thing some say it doesn't matter. I have yet to figure that out.
    If you order some Buffalo Arms Co. 9# onion skin it will patch from .453 to about .459 which might work well for you with no sizing at all.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Huvius's Avatar
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    You may want to search out some genuine onion skin paper and start with a .450-.452" slick patching to or a thou' over groove so .458-.459".
    I have found that resizing patched boolits works if the paper holds up but won't give you the best consistency.
    Or, maybe get a few boolits from some more experienced PP shooters here and give them a try in your gun. I can send you a few if you report how they work for you. Patched and unpatched so you can try two different papers and compare a slick to a GG boolit. Send me a PM if you want some.
    I just shot my Ruger No.1 in .458 Lott on Saturday and it worked great! I use 54grs of H4198 and a backer rod filler for my swaged 450gr boolits in that. It was really thumping and had no problem hitting steel offhand at 200yds.
    Funny thing, I accidentally had a couple black powder loads in my box and they performed very similarly to the NfB loads. After two of those, my bore was pretty grungy and I didn't have a rod and patches with me so I just fired another smokeless load and the bore looked as if the BP cartridges were never used!
    That was a satisfying trip to the range for sure.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I tried them last weekend but have been to busy to post my results.

    I was just using a shooting stick and standing up, as I didn't have a bench. Three went into one ragged hole at 25 yards. At 50 Yards, the wind kicked up and was blowing my informal target around, but I still put 3 in 3 inches, still standing, with a shooting stick (I need to shoot them off a bench at 100). I ran 3 rounds over the chrony for 1252, 1277, and 1279 fps.

    I did only run 15 grains of Trail Boss. I didn't want to risk compression, but had plenty of room. It worked out very well, so I doubt I try to sneak in any more. Recoil was about like a light 20 gauge and noise was about like a .22 Magnum or a little less. POI was the very top of the fine crosshair at both 25 and 50 yards, which is pretty dang handy.

    Were I to try anything different, I'd not bother sizing my bare bullets which should put them around .454-.455, use thinner paper for around .462-.463, and run them through a .460 die, but I'm pretty dang happy where they're at!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    Sounds like you're well on your way to a very nice load.
    You can't argue with those speeds either. More than enough energy to take any game you're going to run into.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I do want to mess with some 405HB's, but it is a LOOOONG boolit. I'd like to have a smooth sided 400-420 grain with no hollow base just for patching. The HB has shot well (what little I've messed with it), but I suspect I'd have to hang off of the press handle to seat them on as much 3031 as I'd like to cram under them (48-50 grains). Gonna try it though......

    Also thinking ahead to my Krag. I'm thinking cast some Lee 200 RN's, size to .302, onion skin up to .310. For some odd reason (maybe I read it somewhere), I suspect the smaller bore will like the thinner paper (where the .45-70 doesn't seem to mind it). Enough IMR-4831 (had decent luck with it with 220 Jacketed bullets) to hit to the sights at 100. Seat till I hit the magbox or the throat, whichever comes first.
    Prolly start another thread on the Krag, but any advice is much appreciated.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    My buddy is sending me the Lyman postell and a hoch nose pour to try this week.
    If they shoot well I'll stick with that. If not I'm going to try to get some samples of the smooth sides bullet to try.
    I think it's all about rifling depth really. Though some guys are shooting 30 cals with printer paper and no issues. Seems it will all work well and it's more about technique than paper choice

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    As for making a PP mould, I've made several simple ones. Mine are very similar to the old Ideal Cylindrical Mold:

    https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_pi...fb287fe83c18b5

    I use 1 1/2" round bar for the body and an ejector that is adjustable for depth so makes an adjustable weight boolit mould. They work very well.

    Longbow

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    As for making a PP mould, I've made several simple ones. Mine are very similar to the old Ideal Cylindrical Mold:

    https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_pi...fb287fe83c18b5

    I use 1 1/2" round bar for the body and an ejector that is adjustable for depth so makes an adjustable weight boolit mould. They work very well.

    Longbow
    That's cool! Do you know of any tutorials on how to make one?

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

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    If memory serves heathydee posted his procedure which is similar to mine.

    As I said, I use 1 1/2" round bar for up to 12 ga. at which point it is a bit small but for .30 cal it is perfect. I either bore a cylindrical cavity on my lathe or I make a "D" bit and ream a cylindrical cavity. Once I have a cylindrical cavity I make a lap and lap a VERY SLIGHT taper of maybe 0.000%' in the cylindrical cavity, make my sprue plate out of 3/16" plate, turn a nose form out of steel or brass and then it is pretty much good to go. Kind of an abbreviated description but they really are not hard to make.

    Do a search for heathydee and I am pretty sure he posted a thread with photos. Also, Buckshot posted a procedure for making "D" bits.

    I can provide more info when I have more time but I am heading out walleye fishing in a few minutes so not now.

    Longbow

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    Good luck fishing.

    I found this. Kind of hard to look at on my phone so I'll take better look in the morning

    http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/...3;t=24090;st=0

    Thanks for the info

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    There are some okay video's on youtube as well. I was thinking about making a "fall out" paper patch mold, but the adj. weight-nose setup is pretty intriguing.
    Gotta get my Lathe moved into my shop.........

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I'm back.

    No fish and somewhat mangled leg!

    I took a look and found the thread by heathydee but no photos anymore! He had done a pretty good write up.

    The cylindrical moulds can be made in a variety of flavours.

    My first one was "blind" with just an ejector pin to push on the nose to get the boolit out. I made a "D" bit based on the Lyman 314299 200 gr. .303 boolit but no lube groove or gas check shank (not needed with PP anyway). I drilled almost to depth and almost to diameter then used the "D" bit to ream the final cavity. That results in a fixed weight boolit but with possibility of a flat point or HP.

    Moving on I made a through bored mould which is easier to make then made a sliding nose form as an ejector. This allowed pointed boolits, flat point, HP or about whatever nose design you want.

    These moulds can also be made without an ejector pin or nose form but I'll recommend against it. The lead general shrinks enough that the boolits will fall out but it is faster with an ejector and if a boolit sticks and you don't have an ejector then you are melting it out. Not a big deal but inconvenient.

    I have pics but I am rebuilding my PC after it locked up from a virus or something and don't have them loaded back up yet.

    Also, this style of mould can be used for normal lubed boolit shooting as well using:

    - grease cookies like BP guys (yes with smokeless or BP)
    - tumble lubed
    - knurled

    I've had success with all methods and in fact my Lee Enfield has shot its best groups with a 215 gr. smooth boolit that was tumble lubed so not much lube on the groove diameter shank in the cartridge neck but no leading and good accuracy. There's enough lube on the nose to take care of things.

    I'm actually surprised the cylindrical push out moulds aren't more common.

    And another thought... DoctorBill made one and posted... here:

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...highlight=mold

    That might help a bit.

    Longbow

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Was about to order a Lee .308 200grn RN mold and it hit me that I don't have a belling die for my .30-40 Krag. I was looking on Mid South and noticed that these came in different diameters from .308 to .311.
    My plan was to size boolits to .308, roll tracing paper/onionskin or some such and bring it up to around .315, and size back down to .311.
    Question is, do I need a .311 die? Or something a little smaller that will still bell the mouth, but keep decent neck tension?

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Potsy View Post
    Was about to order a Lee .308 200grn RN mold and it hit me that I don't have a belling die for my .30-40 Krag. I was looking on Mid South and noticed that these came in different diameters from .308 to .311.
    My plan was to size boolits to .308, roll tracing paper/onionskin or some such and bring it up to around .315, and size back down to .311.
    Question is, do I need a .311 die? Or something a little smaller that will still bell the mouth, but keep decent neck tension?
    I would get a Lyman M Die to expand enough so that your bullets don't get sized back down under neck tension.
    You might want to try a NOE sizer to get down to say .301 (his airgun section has more sizes to dig through too ) that way you can patch up to .311 and just kiss it with a sizing Die. You don't want to size down too much once wrapped. I have sized down .004" with no issues but someguys say it's bad for the paper. Don't quite remember how but they had issues.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check